Forget their ages for a while,
O'Brien has improved the Pen.
Wade Miller would look good in
Cincinnati Red.
Forget their ages for a while,
O'Brien has improved the Pen.
Wade Miller would look good in
Cincinnati Red.
Perhaps OB believes that letting the young pitching on this team mature and grow into it's potential is the way to address the long-term future of the team. I'm not saying that he's correct but, maybe, that's the thinking in the front office. (shrug)By MWM: DanO's yet to make a single move to address the long-term future of this franchise. He's yet to acquire a single impact player of the type who can contribute to a championship caliber team now or in the future.
I'm just hopeing that Weathers, Weber and now Merker all don't get 'old-man' disease this year and have their careers fall off the face of the earth. If that happens it's going to be a very long and ugly summer.
That's a good point, John. The Reds did have a plan when they brought Junior home but it was derailed by a factor that is something that there is very little control over. I know that it would be going against the trend (in a major way) but, if by chance, KGJ actually had an injury free year that plan from about 5 years ago might actually look pretty good. Especially if one or more of the 'young guns' took a major step forward. I'm not saying the Reds would take the division but '05 could turn out to be a pretty interesting and fun summer.By JohnGalt: I know a lot of people would disagree, but if we didn't have the money tied up with Junior, I fully believe the Reds would be going after signing a legitimate ace to anchor the rotation for 3-4 years or a truly impactful bat to stick in the middle of the lineup for that amount of time. That's what the original intent of the Griffey signing was. But when you make that move in a smaller market and it fails, then you are severely handicapped from making that move again for a while.
Rem
I think that's what they're thinking, and I also think it's the way to go. You have to hope, at some point, that we so develop 2-3 decent SPs and tie them up at a low wage, so you have that mythical PayFlex available every year around the trade deadline and, if we're in it, can afford a few players to get us "over the hump." If you tie up all your cash at the beginning of the season, you can't fill in holes come July. At least not with the way the FO handles their finances.Originally Posted by remdog
Like it or not, that's the way it is. So let's keep our fingers crossed for the youngsters.
I like the Mercker deal, but I think DanO is forgetting Pythagoras IRT last season. If all he's seeing is that we would have won a good 20 more games last season if it hadn't been for the bullpen, and thinks shoring that up is all we need to do to succeed, he's missing the forest for the trees (to break out that old chestnut).
"It's easier to give up. I'm not a very vocal player. I lead by example. I take the attitude that I've got to go out and do it. Because of who I am, I've got to give everything I've got to come back."
-Ken Griffey Jr.
Exactly. We still need that #1/#2 guy to bolster our rotation. If we don't sign a O. Perez type SP, it's going to be basically the same as last year.Originally Posted by zombie-a-go-go
Signing a guy like Perez may not get us to the playoffs, but I am willing to bet that it would improve us to the point that we would score more runs than our opponents for the season. It would also make watching Reds games much more enjoyable. Our SP's the last couple of years are taking years off my life.
This is very true, but like rebuilding the Bengals, rebuilding the Reds is a process you can't complete in one season. I think at this point, our only need is a true #1 starter unless you wanted to claim that we still needed a #2 as well.Originally Posted by Playadlc
If we were to sign a Millwood or Perez, what it would do is put us in a position that we could then go into the season and see how things play out. If we stayed away from the injury bug and were in contention at the deadline, we could be literally just 1 player away and at that point, Kearns or Jr may have reestablished some trade value that would allow us to make a big move to get a #1.
I think that if I were OBrien, I might still be out shopping, but I would be incredibly happy to take this team to spring training if I could get a Millwood or Perez signed. Then we could just see how things played out from there.
I agree with the premise, but not with the method. Unless you are talking about a phenom (and the Reds have none of those), I think it is far better to let young starters mature in the bullpen. Easier to protect them and put them in situations they can succeed.Originally Posted by remdog
Originally Posted by puca
Chicken or the Egg: How many situations for success are you going to be in for 2-5 young pitchers to develop quickly at the major league level, with the talent we currently have?
I think the time for coddling was last year after the ASB, now is the baptism under fire. At some point, they need to get that killer instinct, and now is the time.
And if they struggle? Baptism under fire has not worked very well to date. Maybe it has been the talent, or maybe it has been the methodology. There is another way to develop starting pitchers besides throwing them to the wolves. Houston and others have shown that.Originally Posted by DoogMinAmo
The Reds have only 2 young pitchers likely to be on the roster opening day that could someday become above average starters. Let Harang and Hitchcock take daily beatings, but don't crush Claussen and Hudson. Neither Claussen or Hudson have even had a full year of success in AAA. Thinking they can handle 30+ starts in the majors this year is madness if you ask me. I'm betting neither makes it to All-Star break as a starter.
They had the second half of last year, they struggled and showed flashes then. Chances are they will continue to take their lumps, and shine at times as well. Not to throw them up there with the proverbial children, but Oakland baptised with the Big 3 in 2000, and we all know where that got them. It can be done.Originally Posted by puca
I would be very willing to take that bet, barring any future acquisitions.
I'd give him a pretty good grade in that case.Originally Posted by iammrred
Signing Jimmeniz was good, but that should be a given. (Anyone with common sense would've done that).
Right now, it's hard for me to give him a grade. I really like that he's brought in the pitching. I have high hopes for Ortiz, but some posters here have made some excellent points about the risk of that trade.
I do like that he's made a decent effort to improve the pitching though. Last year, I wasn't sure he even had a pulse.
[Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
Hudson is already 27 years old. It's time to throw him to the wolves and see what he's made of. Unfortunately, I don't think Hudson will be a part of the long term future, but I have no problem with finding out for sure. We can't coddle him until he's 30.Originally Posted by puca
But I do agree with you on Claussen. I didn't want him called up last year. He wasn't ready, and it showed. DanO preaches patience with young pitchers, but the actions show that really nothing has changed.
[Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
Here is what I love about Redread - he quotes someone who correctly spells Jimenez in a post, and then he still misspells Jimmeniz again!!!Originally Posted by REDREAD
Redread - you and I agree on most things with the Reds, heck you and I are the only two of the group of us who usually post the same thoughts who happen to like the Ortiz trade, but its Jimenez, Jimenez, Jimenez!!!!!
PS - I hope you know I'm just playing with ya :allovrjr:
"I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
- - Rowdy Roddy Piper
"It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man"
- - Fletch
Ok, I'll watch that.. It took me awhile to stop spelling it D'Jimmeniz.. I'll eventually get it right.Originally Posted by Puffy
[Phil ] Castellini celebrated the team's farm system and noted the team had promising prospects who would one day be great Reds -- and then joke then they'd be ex-Reds, saying "of course we're going to lose them". #SellTheTeamBob
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
I hear what you are saying about Hudson. However I still think you are better off finding out if he is a major league pitcher before finding out if he is a major league starter. If a foundation of success can be built in the bullpen perhaps the self-doubt isn't as quick to creep in.Originally Posted by REDREAD
Tim Hudson came up in 1999, Mulder arrived in 2000, while Zito showed up at the end of 2000. But you are right they we thrown right into the rotation. I'm not sure of their minor league numbers, so I'm not totally convinced it is the same situation. My point is that while Luke Hudson and Claussen may have pitched well at times, they don't even have a sparkling minor league track record.Originally Posted by DoogMinAmo
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