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Thread: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

  1. #61
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    Forget their ages for a while,
    O'Brien has improved the Pen.

    Wade Miller would look good in
    Cincinnati Red.

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  3. #62
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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    By MWM: DanO's yet to make a single move to address the long-term future of this franchise. He's yet to acquire a single impact player of the type who can contribute to a championship caliber team now or in the future.
    Perhaps OB believes that letting the young pitching on this team mature and grow into it's potential is the way to address the long-term future of the team. I'm not saying that he's correct but, maybe, that's the thinking in the front office. (shrug)

    I'm just hopeing that Weathers, Weber and now Merker all don't get 'old-man' disease this year and have their careers fall off the face of the earth. If that happens it's going to be a very long and ugly summer.

    By JohnGalt: I know a lot of people would disagree, but if we didn't have the money tied up with Junior, I fully believe the Reds would be going after signing a legitimate ace to anchor the rotation for 3-4 years or a truly impactful bat to stick in the middle of the lineup for that amount of time. That's what the original intent of the Griffey signing was. But when you make that move in a smaller market and it fails, then you are severely handicapped from making that move again for a while.
    That's a good point, John. The Reds did have a plan when they brought Junior home but it was derailed by a factor that is something that there is very little control over. I know that it would be going against the trend (in a major way) but, if by chance, KGJ actually had an injury free year that plan from about 5 years ago might actually look pretty good. Especially if one or more of the 'young guns' took a major step forward. I'm not saying the Reds would take the division but '05 could turn out to be a pretty interesting and fun summer.

    Rem

  4. #63
    Mod Law zombie-a-go-go's Avatar
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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog
    Perhaps OB believes that letting the young pitching on this team mature and grow into it's potential is the way to address the long-term future of the team. I'm not saying that he's correct but, maybe, that's the thinking in the front office. (shrug)
    I think that's what they're thinking, and I also think it's the way to go. You have to hope, at some point, that we so develop 2-3 decent SPs and tie them up at a low wage, so you have that mythical PayFlex available every year around the trade deadline and, if we're in it, can afford a few players to get us "over the hump." If you tie up all your cash at the beginning of the season, you can't fill in holes come July. At least not with the way the FO handles their finances.

    Like it or not, that's the way it is. So let's keep our fingers crossed for the youngsters.

    I like the Mercker deal, but I think DanO is forgetting Pythagoras IRT last season. If all he's seeing is that we would have won a good 20 more games last season if it hadn't been for the bullpen, and thinks shoring that up is all we need to do to succeed, he's missing the forest for the trees (to break out that old chestnut).
    "It's easier to give up. I'm not a very vocal player. I lead by example. I take the attitude that I've got to go out and do it. Because of who I am, I've got to give everything I've got to come back."
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  5. #64
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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by zombie-a-go-go
    I like the Mercker deal, but I think DanO is forgetting Pythagoras IRT last season. If all he's seeing is that we would have won a good 20 more games last season if it hadn't been for the bullpen, and thinks shoring that up is all we need to do to succeed, he's missing the forest for the trees (to break out that old chestnut).
    Exactly. We still need that #1/#2 guy to bolster our rotation. If we don't sign a O. Perez type SP, it's going to be basically the same as last year.

    Signing a guy like Perez may not get us to the playoffs, but I am willing to bet that it would improve us to the point that we would score more runs than our opponents for the season. It would also make watching Reds games much more enjoyable. Our SP's the last couple of years are taking years off my life.
    DLC11@Insightbb.com

  6. #65
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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Playadlc
    Exactly. We still need that #1/#2 guy to bolster our rotation. If we don't sign a O. Perez type SP, it's going to be basically the same as last year.

    Signing a guy like Perez may not get us to the playoffs, but I am willing to bet that it would improve us to the point that we would score more runs than our opponents for the season. It would also make watching Reds games much more enjoyable. Our SP's the last couple of years are taking years off my life.
    This is very true, but like rebuilding the Bengals, rebuilding the Reds is a process you can't complete in one season. I think at this point, our only need is a true #1 starter unless you wanted to claim that we still needed a #2 as well.

    If we were to sign a Millwood or Perez, what it would do is put us in a position that we could then go into the season and see how things play out. If we stayed away from the injury bug and were in contention at the deadline, we could be literally just 1 player away and at that point, Kearns or Jr may have reestablished some trade value that would allow us to make a big move to get a #1.

    I think that if I were OBrien, I might still be out shopping, but I would be incredibly happy to take this team to spring training if I could get a Millwood or Perez signed. Then we could just see how things played out from there.

  7. #66
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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog
    Perhaps OB believes that letting the young pitching on this team mature and grow into it's potential is the way to address the long-term future of the team. I'm not saying that he's correct but, maybe, that's the thinking in the front office. (shrug)
    I agree with the premise, but not with the method. Unless you are talking about a phenom (and the Reds have none of those), I think it is far better to let young starters mature in the bullpen. Easier to protect them and put them in situations they can succeed.

  8. #67
    Porkchop Sandwiches DoogMinAmo's Avatar
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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by puca
    I agree with the premise, but not with the method. Unless you are talking about a phenom (and the Reds have none of those), I think it is far better to let young starters mature in the bullpen. Easier to protect them and put them in situations they can succeed.

    Chicken or the Egg: How many situations for success are you going to be in for 2-5 young pitchers to develop quickly at the major league level, with the talent we currently have?

    I think the time for coddling was last year after the ASB, now is the baptism under fire. At some point, they need to get that killer instinct, and now is the time.
    "I'm a Cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. Please don't send me to the pickle farm, bum." - Brak

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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by DoogMinAmo
    Chicken or the Egg: How many situations for success are you going to be in for 2-5 young pitchers to develop quickly at the major league level, with the talent we currently have?

    I think the time for coddling was last year after the ASB, now is the baptism under fire. At some point, they need to get that killer instinct, and now is the time.
    And if they struggle? Baptism under fire has not worked very well to date. Maybe it has been the talent, or maybe it has been the methodology. There is another way to develop starting pitchers besides throwing them to the wolves. Houston and others have shown that.

    The Reds have only 2 young pitchers likely to be on the roster opening day that could someday become above average starters. Let Harang and Hitchcock take daily beatings, but don't crush Claussen and Hudson. Neither Claussen or Hudson have even had a full year of success in AAA. Thinking they can handle 30+ starts in the majors this year is madness if you ask me. I'm betting neither makes it to All-Star break as a starter.

  10. #69
    Porkchop Sandwiches DoogMinAmo's Avatar
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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by puca
    And if they struggle? ... I'm betting neither makes it to All-Star break as a starter.
    They had the second half of last year, they struggled and showed flashes then. Chances are they will continue to take their lumps, and shine at times as well. Not to throw them up there with the proverbial children, but Oakland baptised with the Big 3 in 2000, and we all know where that got them. It can be done.

    I would be very willing to take that bet, barring any future acquisitions.
    "I'm a Cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. Please don't send me to the pickle farm, bum." - Brak

    Record In Games Attended, 2007: 2-1 (1-0 GAB, 1-1 Jake)

  11. #70
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by iammrred
    ... or actually bring in a legitimate stud pitcher. If you pull the little nuggets of info from the lines and lines of filler in DOB's quotes, it really sounds like they're trying to bring in some starting pitching.

    Let's say DOB lands someone like Millwood and signs Jimenez. What would you give him for a grade for the offseason?
    I'd give him a pretty good grade in that case.

    Signing Jimmeniz was good, but that should be a given. (Anyone with common sense would've done that).

    Right now, it's hard for me to give him a grade. I really like that he's brought in the pitching. I have high hopes for Ortiz, but some posters here have made some excellent points about the risk of that trade.

    I do like that he's made a decent effort to improve the pitching though. Last year, I wasn't sure he even had a pulse.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  12. #71
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by puca
    Neither Claussen or Hudson have even had a full year of success in AAA.
    Hudson is already 27 years old. It's time to throw him to the wolves and see what he's made of. Unfortunately, I don't think Hudson will be a part of the long term future, but I have no problem with finding out for sure. We can't coddle him until he's 30.

    But I do agree with you on Claussen. I didn't want him called up last year. He wasn't ready, and it showed. DanO preaches patience with young pitchers, but the actions show that really nothing has changed.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  13. #72
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    I'd give him a pretty good grade in that case.

    Signing Jimmeniz was good, but that should be a given. (Anyone with common sense would've done that).

    Right now, it's hard for me to give him a grade. I really like that he's brought in the pitching. I have high hopes for Ortiz, but some posters here have made some excellent points about the risk of that trade.

    I do like that he's made a decent effort to improve the pitching though. Last year, I wasn't sure he even had a pulse.
    Here is what I love about Redread - he quotes someone who correctly spells Jimenez in a post, and then he still misspells Jimmeniz again!!!

    Redread - you and I agree on most things with the Reds, heck you and I are the only two of the group of us who usually post the same thoughts who happen to like the Ortiz trade, but its Jimenez, Jimenez, Jimenez!!!!!

    PS - I hope you know I'm just playing with ya :allovrjr:
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
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  14. #73
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy
    Jimenez, Jimenez, Jimenez!!!!!

    PS - I hope you know I'm just playing with ya :allovrjr:
    Ok, I'll watch that.. It took me awhile to stop spelling it D'Jimmeniz.. I'll eventually get it right.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  15. #74
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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Hudson is already 27 years old. It's time to throw him to the wolves and see what he's made of. Unfortunately, I don't think Hudson will be a part of the long term future, but I have no problem with finding out for sure. We can't coddle him until he's 30.

    But I do agree with you on Claussen. I didn't want him called up last year. He wasn't ready, and it showed. DanO preaches patience with young pitchers, but the actions show that really nothing has changed.
    I hear what you are saying about Hudson. However I still think you are better off finding out if he is a major league pitcher before finding out if he is a major league starter. If a foundation of success can be built in the bullpen perhaps the self-doubt isn't as quick to creep in.

  16. #75
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    Re: Kent Mercker signs for 2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by DoogMinAmo
    They had the second half of last year, they struggled and showed flashes then. Chances are they will continue to take their lumps, and shine at times as well. Not to throw them up there with the proverbial children, but Oakland baptised with the Big 3 in 2000, and we all know where that got them. It can be done.

    I would be very willing to take that bet, barring any future acquisitions.
    Tim Hudson came up in 1999, Mulder arrived in 2000, while Zito showed up at the end of 2000. But you are right they we thrown right into the rotation. I'm not sure of their minor league numbers, so I'm not totally convinced it is the same situation. My point is that while Luke Hudson and Claussen may have pitched well at times, they don't even have a sparkling minor league track record.


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