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Thread: Eric Milton signs for 3 years/$25.5 million

  1. #151
    Member Ohioballplayer's Avatar
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    Re: Eric Milton

    Flyer, that's still horrible no matter what you think, we could gave given Perez the same amount and gotten him
    Bowled 10, 300 games, I'm BACK!!

    Nothing like bowling a 300 game

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  3. #152
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Eric Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFan75
    Ran Miltions batting average on balls in play (BABIP) and compared him with a few others.
    BABIP
    Eric Miltion .257
    Odalis Perez .251
    Luke Hudson .237
    Aaron Harang .305
    Claussen .317
    Acevedo .308
    Hancock .259
    Wilson .277

    FWIW, I'll take .257 over .305, or .308
    .257 isn't Milton's BABIP from 2004. Milton's BABIP was .271, which generally means that he's due for an increase in BABIP unless we assume that he's truly capable of keeping it down around the .275 mark. Of course, it's all immaterial if he allows the same number of bombs he did in 2004.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  4. #153
    Member RedsFan75's Avatar
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    Re: Eric Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    .257 isn't Milton's BABIP from 2004. Milton's BABIP was .271, which generally means that he's due for an increase in BABIP unless we assume that he's truly capable of keeping it down around the .275 mark. Of course, it's all immaterial if he allows the same number of bombs he did in 2004.
    I got the stats from the Cube, if my calculation is wrong on his, don't trust any of the others either, because I used the same formula....

  5. #154
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Eric Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohioballplayer
    Flyer, that's still horrible no matter what you think, we could gave given Perez the same amount and gotten him
    How much did we give him? I have not seen the numbers reported.

    I would assume we could have gotten Perez for 3 years and $25M.

  6. #155
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Eric Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    MWM,

    I would think you're hanging out around here should tell you that there are all different levels of fans. On a transaction, it becomes evident pretty quickly that there are some who do operate in the realm of "isn't he good? Good signing." Why talk down to someone like that?
    Because I'm getting piled on pretty good here in this thread simply because I'm not thrilled about a pitcher with a career 4.76 ERA. And as far as the comments about the poster before, it goes much deeper than this thread. Why talk down? That particular person isn't capable of posting on this forum without talking down. I'm tired of getting talked down to by him, so I finally said something. People think the SABR guys are condescending, that guy's the most self-righteous person on this entire forum.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  7. #156
    Member Ryan the Reds Fan's Avatar
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    Re: Eric Milton

    Not sure how stating that I respect your opinion is getting personal with you. Didn't mean to take it there, if you thought that I apologize. You say "Why can't you just say you're happy with it and leave it at that?" well why doesn't it go the other way as well? You seem to be pretty caught up in it. How about we just agree to disagree on this signing and move on my friend. I didn't mean to stir any trouble. Hey we're all here for our love of the reds, that's one thing we can all agree on. Let's hope for the best and move forward Wheels. Deal? :gac:

  8. #157
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Eric Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan30
    Also, I don't see how anyone could look at Eric Milton, good numbers and bad, and say with a straight face that he's not an improvement over some of the pitchers we have ran out there the past couple years.

    I don't think ANYONE is debating that Eric Milton is not an upgrade to our rotation. I think what most people are saying, including myself, is that there were better options out there for the money they are spending. We've heard that the Reds made a run at Clement, obviously he didn't want to be here, same could be true of Odalis Perez, but if that's the case, put your money back in your pocket, there's plenty of places to spend it. You don't just go throwing money around at anything available. That's careless, and that will get you in trouble down the line. Milton is a good pitcher, in my opinion, but he's not worth anymore than 4.5-5.0M a year. I guarantee the Reds paid way more than that, and they shouldn't have. Because of that, they will regret this signing down the road at some point. Bank on it.
    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
    -Snoop on his retirement

    Your Mom is happy.

  9. #158
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Eric Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsFan75
    I got the stats from the Cube, if my calculation is wrong on his, don't trust any of the others either, because I used the same formula....

    http://baseballprospectus.com/statis....php?year=2004

    Click on "Miscellaneous Pitching Stats"

    It's as accurate as accurate gets.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  10. #159
    Member Ohioballplayer's Avatar
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    Re: Eric Milton

    I wold say the 21-23 million dollar range, even at 15 mill, it's a bad SIGN !! :thumbdown
    Bowled 10, 300 games, I'm BACK!!

    Nothing like bowling a 300 game

  11. #160
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    Re: Eric Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    From Rotoworld

    "It's nice to see the Reds signing a big-name free agent. It's just too bad they picked one of the game's most overrated players to spend their money on. Milton's flyball tendencies won't play well in Great American. He does improve the team, but the Reds will regret this a year from now"
    and then again, maybe they won't.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  12. #161
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Eric Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    I'm not that sophisticated. Look at his ERA. I don't that takes much sphistication.



    Dupe might not be the best term here. I think they're trying to improve the team. And I think the team is marginally better. I'll admit that. But I also know that you understand the principle of natural variation. They could have a little better team and still end up with the same number of wins and losses as last year. If you want to ensure a much better record, you better get a lot better than the moves that have been made. I think the FO is trying to do enough to convince people they're getting better. I don't think they're being dishonest. I just think they're really GOING FOR IT.



    What do you say to everyone in this thread who thinks people who aren't drooling over Eric Milton are jus malcontents who are never going to be happy. We've shown WHY we aren't thrilled with these moves, yet no one who is heaping the criticism on us has offered a single shred of evidence other than record,which everyone knows doesn't mean a whole lot in evaluating pithchers.

    And again, I don't think the fans are unsophisticated. they're capable of looking a the guy's ERA, but for some reason they don't. I don't think that's a lack of sophistication. I'm not sure what it is.
    I disagree with your self-evaluation. You are a sophisticated fan, it is evident in your posts.

    I hear what you're saying about marginal improvements may not help in the grand scheme of things, but the same principles could spell above average years because of changing teams.

    Finally, as I follow the transaction evaluation, one thing that comes out is that the downside to a player is emphasized, while the possible positive attributes are totally discounted. There are some things to like about Eric Milton that could make him able to make a difference for the 2005 Reds, just like there is with Joe Randa. But what gets discussed? "Gave up 43 homers last year." "Did you look at his ERA?" I ask, what about his WHIP and K rates? Those are positive. Improvement in a problem area like giving up gopher balls coupled with consistency in the WHIP could lower that ERA to a level that helps the Reds win more ballgames this year.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  13. #162
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Eric Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan30
    Also, I don't see how anyone could look at Eric Milton, good numbers and bad, and say with a straight face that he's not an improvement over some of the pitchers we have ran out there the past couple years.
    No one said that. I thnk he IS an improvement. But the Reds had the worst non-Colorado pitching staff in the game last year. Moves like this still kepp them in thw botom 5 or 6. They might no be last, but they won't be much better.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  14. #163
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Eric Milton

    Some don't like it. Some of us do.

    Milton would have been my last choice of Lowe-Perez-Millwood-Milton but he is an upgrade, does have upside though with a long track record the Reds will probably get pretty much what he's averaged in the past. He eats innings, has a decent K rate, he's lefty - all three help the Reds. My biggest problem when people disagree on either side of the argument is there always seem to be snide references to how dumb, or how "holier than thou" the other person is simply because they don't agree. I think both sides make valid points - for the first time in a long time the Reds seem to be losening up a bit with the pursestrings, the club is improved - on the other hand, none of Milton, Randa, Ortiz, Weathers, Webber, Wilson resigning is a quantum leap. I still like it. My old man used to tell me, "even if its wrong - do something - that's better than paralysis"

    I like the message implied in these moves. "We are going to try and improve - and NOT kill our future at the same time". Sitting in a car going around the same block again and again is boring - at least we're heading in a new direction now.

  15. #164
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    Re: Eric Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan30
    You people are freaking unbelievable. You ***** about every signing the Reds make. You ***** that they do nothing. You ***** that the offseason is a failure because they didn't upgrade the starting pitching. When they do upgrade the starting pitching with a nice, proven Major League pitcher what do you do? *****.

    You guys could find something in the Bible and complain about it.

    Unreal.
    Amen. I've said this. I don't want to say everyone, but we have some guys that will complain about everything. How can you be upset about this signing. 4.76 in the AL isn't that bad. Remember you face a #9 hitter and not a pitcher. He's also a lefty. We needed this type of a signing bad and I'm fired up!
    And This One Belongs to the REDS!!!

  16. #165
    Member Ohioballplayer's Avatar
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    Re: Eric Milton

    :dflynn:
    Bowled 10, 300 games, I'm BACK!!

    Nothing like bowling a 300 game


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