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Thread: Why All The Negativity?

  1. #46
    Member Ryan the Reds Fan's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Nice simultaneous responses from the same perspective, and no we didn't collaborate guys. :MandJ:

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  3. #47
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    ok woy, first of all.... thppt!

    next good points mostly. Except i am of the opinion you do not overpay for Ortiz. If they want Mosely, then that is too much. Smile and let Atlanta or Chicago overpay.

    Freel's offense waayyyy made up for his defense at third, which imo would have gotten better this year. Now the reds lose the best leadoff hitter they have had in the last 10 years. all to get Randa's glove? blech

    You are right that we haven't heard a word about O. Perez, but from all acounts a blitz by players and management happened to get Milton. Why not do that for Perez? It's good to be wanted, and it can play into signing a contract. I think it did in Milton's case. He could easily have signed with the Champs or the Yanks.

    DanO does keep things close to the vest... so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on Miller.

    None of this excuses Homer Bailey though.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  4. #48
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan the Reds Fan
    Such as? I'm just curious, trying to understand your perspective.
    Above average players are acquired by teams all the time. Many as Free Agents, many via trade.

    I could throw out the names "Matt Clement" and "Odalis Perez", but all that ends up leading to is claims of "Oh, the Reds couldn't have had either of those players at any price...etc...etc." Defeatist rhetoric.

    I disagree with that reasoning, but it appears to be pervasive. I fail to see the logic behind the concept that, because the Reds didn't sign Player A that means they couldn't have possibly signed Player A. The fact that something didn't happen in no way means that it couldn't have.

    Same tune, different notes as last season. Last year the defense was that O'Brien needed time to evaluate and that the Reds didn't have any money to spend. But now that he's had that time and has the money, what does he do? Spend it on average-to-below-average players, that's what.

    And O'Brien's praised for making the hampster-wheel "effort" to make the team better. I'll be supportive of the guy as soon as he actually DOES make the Reds significantly better.

    157 Runs. That's the improvment it'll take just to get the Reds to 81-81 in 2005. I don't see anything achieved this offseason that will significantly impact that number. Nada.

    Good General Managers make things happen that truly benefit their clubs. They find ways to do it.

    And it's not like folks have unrealistic expectations. Identify and acquire an above average performer who'll really help the Reds. Make it happen.

    O'Brien hasn't. Maybe...just maybe...some of the negativity from folks is tied to that one simple concept?

    Just a thought.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
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  5. #49
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Agree Krusty.

    My grade is B or B- to date for off season moves. Gives fans reason for hope/optimism. No, doesn't bounce them into heavy contender/favorite role but takes them out of the "sat on :allovrjr: " all winter club.
    Last edited by BadFundamentals; 12-28-2004 at 01:36 PM. Reason: roll ;)

  6. #50
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Bottom line...people complain when we don't sign players...people complain when we do. The same people complaining about the signings are the same one that will be here praising them when they do good.

  7. #51
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Why the negativity? Because once again, we have to depend on "if's" and "maybe's" and "hope so's" and "question marks" and "keeps us IN the game" and all the other cliches we are sick of hearing.

    The smoke and mirrors on this year's model may be a little more shiney and a little more flashy and a whole lot more expensive than last year's model, but it is still smoke and mirrors.
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

  8. #52
    Porkchop Sandwiches DoogMinAmo's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF
    Why sign Randa when you have Freel?
    If you want a reason, I will offer you near gold-glove caliber defense. I will offer you the injury history of the outfielders, and the value of having Freel and his versatility available. Most importantly, there is the backup plan offering a proven commodity if the one year wonder can not reproduce.

    Why offer 25.5 mil to Milton if O. Perez is still on the market?
    How do you or I know if DanO did not Offer Odalis Perez the money. How do you or I know that DanO did not atleast consider, looked into the matter further, and saw something in OP that he did not like.

    Why trade a Mosely for an Ortiz? Especially if from all reports it is likely the reds could have gotten him for much less?
    Because for every "report" that said the Reds did not need to trade for him, there are "reports" that the Angels were going to tender a contract to Ortiz, no matter what. There was enough interest from enough teams that warranted such a move. DanO is too careful to be hypocritical. He is not gonna give a prospect away, even if it is not a top one, especially if he is stating that the future of the organization is in the farm, unless it is necessary.

    Why not sign or at least go after Wade Miller? for 1.5 mil, he might be the steal of the off season.
    He did look into Miller. He specifically stated such when Miller was officially non-tendered. The problem is, this year everyone would more or less have to be Miller-less, due to his shoulder problems. Now why would they tie up 1.5mil in someone who is not even gonna play this year, let alone with concern as to whether he can pitch the following year. Shoulder injuries are the black hole of baseball.

    it's mistake after mistake after mistake going all the way back to drafting homer bailey over chris nelson.
    This one is to early to call. Wait until after this year at least, I have a weird feeling that our Homer Bailey will be comparable to this Miller kid in Cleveland. The kid throws some heat, and has one smooth delivery. Granted, taking a high school pitcher is not always a smart choice, but every once in a while, it works out. I have good vibes on this, way better than Ty. We gotta trust them on this one, for now. As to Nelson, in a year, we will find out how "can't miss" he is.

    that's the reason for negativity.
    Thats the reason for the, uh, positivity.
    "I'm a Cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. Please don't send me to the pickle farm, bum." - Brak

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  9. #53
    archiebunker
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD

    157 Runs. That's the improvment it'll take just to get the Reds to 81-81 in 2005. I don't see anything achieved this offseason that will significantly impact that number. Nada.

    [
    I agree, I can see them being a 500 club, barely over that maybe.

    I'll keep saying the same thing:

    1. Reds still don't have a legit #1 starter. Most of them have ERA's over 4.

    2. Randa is a fill in until Edwin Encarnacion is ready.

    3. SS is a questionable area.

    4. Good outfiled, with injury risks. If certain players are not healthy the team will go down hill.

  10. #54
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Ryan and TR name the last 5 HS pitcher drafted in the first round to make a significant impact in the Major Leagues.

    Now name the last 5 SS taken in the first round to make a significant impact in the major leagues.

    Not a lot of ARods on the pitching side is there?

    Randa is a 35 year old 3B with no pop, and average at best OB skills. Everything about him screams stay away. If you don't like Freel at third, let him battle Ed E. for the spot, and hope to catch lightning in a bottle. Oh, and you save a million bucks while you are at it.

    On top of all that, read the article i believe woy posted about Milton from BP concerning his knee.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  11. #55
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21
    we have to depend on "if's" and "maybe's" and "hope so's" and "question marks" and "keeps us IN the game" and all the other cliches we are sick of hearing. .
    That has been my position too - that ownership has done just enough in recent years to put the carrot out there in front of fans and keep them "hoping"......."unlikely" but if willing to put on happy face there has been enough talent to be "hopeful".

    These moves don't represent an overhaul of that philosophy but certainly more siginificant than last year and I'm willing to give a little credit where its due.

  12. #56
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21
    Why the negativity? Because once again, we have to depend on "if's" and "maybe's" and "hope so's" and "question marks" and "keeps us IN the game" and all the other cliches we are sick of hearing.

    The smoke and mirrors on this year's model may be a little more shiney and a little more flashy and a whole lot more expensive than last year's model, but it is still smoke and mirrors.
    Very good post, Mike.

    When one's hopes for a ball club rely on players becoming altogether different players, the "IF" machine is truly churning.

    If Eric Milton turns into a different pitcher in 2005 than he was in 2004, it'll be a good signing.

    Shades of Cory Lidle.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  13. #57
    archiebunker
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF
    Ryan and TR name the last 5 HS pitcher drafted in the first round to make a significant impact in the Major Leagues.

    Now name the last 5 SS taken in the first round to make a significant impact in the major leagues.

    Not a lot of ARods on the pitching side is there?

    Randa is a 35 year old 3B with no pop, and average at best OB skills. Everything about him screams stay away. If you don't like Freel at third, let him battle Ed E. for the spot, and hope to catch lightning in a bottle. Oh, and you save a million bucks while you are at it.

    On top of all that, read the article i believe woy posted about Milton from BP concerning his knee.
    You the most clear thinking person Ive seen on here so far.

  14. #58
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by archiebunker
    I agree, I can see them being a 500 club, barely over that maybe.

    I'll keep saying the same thing:

    1. Reds still don't have a legit #1 starter. Most of them have ERA's over 4.

    2. Randa is a fill in until Edwin Encarnacion is ready.

    3. SS is a questionable area.

    4. Good outfiled, with injury risks. If certain players are not healthy the team will go down hill.
    Yeah. "Iffy", ain't it.

    BTW, I'm wondering if anyone can name the last team who improved their Run Differential by 157 Runs from one season to the next?

    Anyone?
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  15. #59
    Porkchop Sandwiches DoogMinAmo's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Yeah. "Iffy", ain't it.

    BTW, I'm wondering if anyone can name the last team who improved their Run Differential by 157 Runs from one season to the next?

    Anyone?
    The 2005 Reds. :mhcky21:
    "I'm a Cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. Please don't send me to the pickle farm, bum." - Brak

    Record In Games Attended, 2007: 2-1 (1-0 GAB, 1-1 Jake)

  16. #60
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Yeah. "Iffy", ain't it.

    BTW, I'm wondering if anyone can name the last team who improved their Run Differential by 157 Runs from one season to the next?

    Anyone?
    It has never happened. Thats my answer and I'm sticking to it.
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
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