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Thread: Why All The Negativity?

  1. #16
    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    I dig what the Reds have been doing this offseason...I am amazed we only traded away Mosley in the process and kept our projected payroll under $70mil and then we signed a very proudctive bat to a minor league contract in Cruz...DanO...well, I think he rawks!
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

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  3. #17
    archiebunker
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by MartyFan
    I dig what the Reds have been doing this offseason...I am amazed we only traded away Mosley in the process and kept our projected payroll under $70mil and then we signed a very proudctive bat to a minor league contract in Cruz...DanO...well, I think he rawks!
    Yes, I like the moves too, they were "good". BUT the Reds still do not have an ace starting pitcher!

  4. #18
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Although directed at Krusty, can I interject?

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    Respectfully Krusty, that's just your opinion and others don't have to agree with it. That doesn't make them "negative", it just means they've analyzed the situation and come to a different conclusion than you have. That is allowed isn't it.
    I define negative as the people on either side who tell posters they disagree with that they are stupid, or "haven't learned a thing about baseball after all these years" because their opinion is different. That's negative. The opinions themselves are just that - opinions. Even with Dunn, who I just think its so apparent what a tremendous player he is - there are opinions on both sides. When I stop and set aside my bias toward Dunn I can usually see some element of truth in the other argument. Same with the debate on these moves.

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    No, there's always going to be people who disagree with the majority and they shouldn't be marginalized because of it.
    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    Do you think the Reds have a chance to conend for the playoffs this year?
    Actually - yes, I do.


    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    Now this is a comment I don't get. Have you watched the last three years? If they come out of the gate winning, there's a good chance another collapse WILL be around the corner. People have predicted it in each of the last two years and been utterly lambasted for it. But were they right or wrong? And trust me, there's no joy in being right about it. I would have LOVED nothing more than to be completely and utterly wrong about the collapse. But when you look at all the factors and objectively analyze the situation, it was clear that the Reds early season success wasn't sustainable. Some of us just spoke up and voiced our opinion.
    And if the Reds break out with a great record but the numbers are similar (minus runs scored-allowed , tons of relief innings early in games that will burn out the pen later on, lower than average OBP, etc) then I'll be predicting the same collapse. It's my opinion the moves made will address some of that.

    I agree with the thrust of what Krusty says. Milton is not Perez or Clement, but maybe we couldn't get them foir any price. Maybe they just weren't seriously interested or wanted even more than market to come here - and the market is ridiculous for pitching. It seems some posters think that you want a guy you just go out and sign him or trade for him. Like there are no other factors that go into it. I would have loved Perez and Clement fronting the rotation but Milton - Ortiz beats the heck out of Hancock-Harang. And we still have the H boys for some depth, too.

  5. #19
    archiebunker
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake
    Although directed at Krusty, can I interject?



    I define negative as the people on either side who tell posters they disagree with that they are stupid, or "haven't learned a thing about baseball after all these years" because their opinion is different. That's negative. The opinions themselves are just that - opinions. Even with Dunn, who I just think its so apparent what a tremendous player he is - there are opinions on both sides. When I stop and set aside my bias toward Dunn I can usually see some element of truth in the other argument. Same with the debate on these moves.



    Agreed.



    Actually - yes, I do.




    And if the Reds break out with a great record but the numbers are similar (minus runs scored-allowed , tons of relief innings early in games that will burn out the pen later on, lower than average OBP, etc) then I'll be predicting the same collapse. It's my opinion the moves made will address some of that.

    I agree with the thrust of what Krusty says. Milton is not Perez or Clement, but maybe we couldn't get them foir any price. Maybe they just weren't seriously interested or wanted even more than market to come here - and the market is ridiculous for pitching. It seems some posters think that you want a guy you just go out and sign him or trade for him. Like there are no other factors that go into it. I would have loved Perez and Clement fronting the rotation but Milton - Ortiz beats the heck out of Hancock-Harang. And we still have the H boys for some depth, too.

    But think about this, do you honestly(not because you want them to because you like them) think the Reds can dominate over the other top 3 teams in this division?

  6. #20
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Acquire a single player who was worth significantly more Runs than average in 2003 versus their positional peer group.

    For starters.

    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
    -Snoop on his retirement

    Your Mom is happy.

  7. #21
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    I thought alot about this last night. I was not impressed with the Milton signing yesterday, but am impressed that the FO and ownership are out there fighting to be a winner. I like all of the bullpen moves (i think Weber is going tobe a steal), Ortiz is someone I have liked and have come around on that deal.

    On Milton, I think the Reds overpaid. Then it occours to me, the Reds most likely would hav eto overpay for anyone (decent) to play in Cincinnati right now. Ala the Bengals of recent years. They were in on Clement, and who i sto say they were not in on Perez or Millwood as well? Milton is one they could "sell" and did it.

    Its kinda like having a bad credit rating. You can probably still buy a car, but your going to pay more for it and probably wont get your first choice when the time comes. In time, as you do thing s right, pay your bills and all, you will pay market prices and have more choice.

    The same can happen for the Reds if they play things right the next couple years - show a committment to winning and continue to build the orgainization.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

  8. #22
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Having seen this organization over since Lindner bought the team I am skeptical.

    What if Milton pitches poorly and the Reds flop early. We will see another purge? Will Dunn and Kearns be traded because Jr and Milton are overpaid and the Reds "can't afford them"?

    Spending a little money this offseason is a start but will this FO see it through if the teams starts losing and the fans don't show up? I have little faith that they will and the cycle begins all over again.

  9. #23
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltachi8
    I thought alot about this last night. I was not impressed with the Milton signing yesterday, but am impressed that the FO and ownership are out there fighting to be a winner.
    Will they see it through if the times get tough or will they punt?

  10. #24
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by archiebunker
    But think about this, do you honestly(not because you want them to because you like them) think the Reds can dominate over the other top 3 teams in this division?
    I didn't say dominate - I said contend for a playoff spot. I think they will.

  11. #25
    archiebunker
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    Having seen this organization over since Lindner bought the team I am skeptical.

    What if Milton pitches poorly and the Reds flop early. We will see another purge? Will Dunn and Kearns be traded because Jr and Milton are overpaid and the Reds "can't afford them"?

    Spending a little money this offseason is a start but will this FO see it through if the teams starts losing and the fans don't show up? I have little faith that they will and the cycle begins all over again.

    If the Reds do poorly next year, expect to see a fire sale.

  12. #26
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    Will they see it through if the times get tough or will they punt?
    thats the question, flyer. I think it all depends on how deep the commitment goes. I also want to see if they (the Reds) plan on a committment long term to Dunn, that would go futher than Eric Milton in showing a commitment.
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

  13. #27
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by archiebunker
    If the Reds do poorly next year, expect to see a fire sale.
    Agreed. Since all these moves are short term anyway, I'd expect just that. I'd agree with it too. To me that means moving out all the veterans you can, adding prospects and retaining the younger players. If this bunch collapses, why not? OB's moves have been predicated on being competitive this year without hurting the future. Hudson, Claussen, Wagner, Valentine, Pauly, Gardner, Bailey, Votto et al. I'm talking 2007-2008. I still think that's the real timetable the FO is looking at. Everything til then is just trying to keep fannies in the seat with a somewhat competitive team.
    Last edited by RedlegJake; 12-28-2004 at 11:56 AM.

  14. #28
    archiebunker
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake
    I didn't say dominate - I said contend for a playoff spot. I think they will.
    The point is, if they can't beat these teams they don't stand a chance. I think wild card spot is there only chance but that is a long shot. But I really think they could be a 500 team next year.

  15. #29
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by deltachi8
    also want to see if they (the Reds) plan on a committment long term to Dunn, that would go futher than Eric Milton in showing a commitment.
    Amen.

    Or at least a couple of the young OFs.

    I have never seen any statements from the Reds about trying to sign Dunn to a LT deal or any statements from Dunn about be interested in a LT deal with the Reds. It is a big unknown at this point.

  16. #30
    Member Ryan the Reds Fan's Avatar
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    Re: Why All The Negativity?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Acquire a single player who was worth significantly more Runs than average in 2003 versus their positional peer group.

    For starters.
    Such as? I'm just curious, trying to understand your perspective.


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