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Thread: The Reality of Red State Fascism

  1. #16
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful
    I didn't write the article so why does it matter?
    see the second part of my signature.
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  3. #17
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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful
    I didn't write the article so why does it matter?
    Good to hear you don't defend the article.

  4. #18
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix
    Good to hear you don't defend the article.
    Oh, I agree with the article in places, I just didn't really get why my definition of fascism had anything to do with the discussion.

    It's really a shame libertarians aren't a more viable party. They'd be much better for our country that the current incarnation of the Republican party who are probably as close to anarchists as they are to classic conservatives.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful
    Oh, I agree with the article in places, I just didn't really get why my definition of fascism had anything to do with the discussion.

    It's really a shame libertarians aren't a more viable party. They'd be much better for our country that the current incarnation of the Republican party who are probably as close to anarchists as they are to classic conservatives.
    What did you title this thread?

  6. #20
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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix
    What did you title this thread?
    the article title:

    The Reality of Red-State Fascism
    by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.
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  7. #21
    Team Puffy Leadoff Hitter CbusRed's Avatar
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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful

    It's really a shame libertarians aren't a more viable party. They'd be much better for our country that the current incarnation of the Republican party who are probably as close to anarchists as they are to classic conservatives.

  8. #22
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    The vigor and determination of the Bush administration has brought about a profound cultural change, so that the very people who once proclaimed hated of government now advocate its use against dissidents of all sorts, especially against those who would dare call for curbs in the totalitarian bureaucracy of the military, or suggest that Bush is something less than infallible in his foreign-policy decisions. The lesson here is that it is always a mistake to advocate government action, for there is no way you can fully anticipate how government will be used. Nor can you ever count on a slice of the population to be moral in its advocacy of the uses of the police power.

    Editor & Publisher, for example, posted a small note the other day about a column written by Al Neuharth, the founder of USA Today, in which he mildly suggested that the troops be brought home from Iraq "sooner rather than later." The editor of E&P was just blown away by the letters that poured in, filled with venom and hate and calling for Neuharth to be tried and locked away as a traitor. The letters compared him with pro-Hitler journalists, and suggested that he was objectively pro-terrorist, choosing to support the Muslim jihad over the US military. Other letters called for Neuharth to get the death penalty for daring to take issue with the Christian leaders of this great Christian nation.

    I'm actually not surprised at this. It has been building for some time. If you follow hate-filled sites such as Free Republic, you know that the populist right in this country has been advocating nuclear holocaust and mass bloodshed for more than a year now. The militarism and nationalism dwarfs anything I saw at any point during the Cold War. It celebrates the shedding of blood, and exhibits a maniacal love of the state. The new ideology of the red-state bourgeoisie seems to actually believe that the US is God marching on earth – not just godlike, but really serving as a proxy for God himself.


    Along with this goes a kind of worship of the presidency, and a celebration of all things public sector, including egregious law like the Patriot Act, egregious bureaucracies like the Department of Homeland Security, and egregious centrally imposed regimentation like the No Child Left Behind Act. It longs for the state to throw its weight behind institutions like the two-parent heterosexual family, the Christian charity, the homogeneous community of native-born patriots.
    I simply had to "highlight" some of the simply absurb assumptions and misperceptions that this author took liberties with in this article. They simply made me laugh and shake my head.

    And he talks about "hate" websites and organizations; but seems to limit his analysis to only those of a conservative nature. Balanced and objective?

    He builds on stereotype that I can see would please most progressive liberals.

    I'm glad this is only an editorial opinion though, with very little truth to it. So it doesn't worry, nor bother me.

    But it at least helps to give some sort of relief to progressives as to why they lost this election. They need answers.
    Last edited by GAC; 01-09-2005 at 11:30 AM.
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  9. #23
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    I simply had to "highlight" some of the simply absurb assumptions and misperceptions that this author took liberties with in this article. They simply made me laugh and shake my head.

    And he talks about "hate" websites and organizations; but seems to limit his analysis to only those of a conservative nature. Balanced and objective?

    He builds on stereotype that I can see would please most progressive liberals.

    I'm glad this is only an editorial opinion though, with very little truth to it. So it doesn't worry, nor bother me.

    But it at least helps to give some sort of relief to progressives as to why they lost this election. They need answers.
    You just wrote a lot of words and didn't present any kind of argument as to why Rockwell is wrong. Do you realize that?
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  10. #24
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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful
    You just wrote a lot of words and didn't present any kind of argument as to why Rockwell is wrong. Do you realize that?
    Rockwell didn't really present much of an argument as to why he was right either. His article is full of assertions and opinions but virtually lacking any factual basis.
    Rockwell appears to equate support for a strong military with fascism. By that standard, Truman, Eisenhower, JFK-heck for that matter George Washington-were fascists.
    Rockwell asserts that large numbers of red staters "worship" George W. Bush-I've seen no more "worship" by Bush supporters than I did in the past from those people who supported JFK or Reagan or Clinton. I can recall female members of the media writing of their wish to "service" Clinton a la Monica-I have yet to read of any such "worship" of Bush.
    I previously posted that there are portions of Rockwell's argument which I believe have merit. The state does tend to increase in size and power during wartime and then not return to its prior size when the conflict is over. Rockwell is hardly the first person to note this. But much of Rockwell's article is no more than a diatribe against those whom he disagrees, which probably "qualifies" him to be a RedsZone poster on this side of the board.
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  11. #25
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    I've seen no more "worship" by Bush supporters than I did in the past from those people who supported JFK or Reagan or Clinton.
    There are a great many people who believe Bush was chosen by God to lead our country. I consider that worship.

    http://www.beliefnet.com/story/156/story_15602.html

    On the day after President Bush was re-elected, he gave much of the credit to his political adviser, Karl Rove, whom he called “the architect” of his campaign. But in evangelical churches, on Christian radio, and in voter precincts dominated by conservative Christians, the credit is going instead to someone a whole lot more powerful: God.

    The Almighty intervened in the U.S. election, these evangelicals believe, to allow Bush to remain president. They say God has “blessed” America with Bush--and had Sen. John Kerry been elected, God would have “cursed” the U.S. By allowing Bush to be re-elected, God has given America “more time” to stop its slide into evil.
    http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=280881&page=1

    "I believe Our Lord elected our president and I believe he put him in office and it is my prayer that he will sustain him in office," said one woman at the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

    Another was asked if she believed that God intervened in the election. "Absolutely," she said.
    If America truly goes wrong, and that's assuming it already hasn't, then it will be because of the religious right. When people believe that God backs them, and only them, they tend to get up to some crazy stuff. Be it 9/11, the Holocaust, or what have you.

    It becomes really easy to do some seriously terrible things if you believe it's what God wants. One could argue that Iraq is a great example of that.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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  12. #26
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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    Long article, interesting points.

    http://www.christianitytoday.com/bc/2005/001/3.8.html

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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    I don't know anybody who thinks Bush was chosen by God to be President. We usually have a wide array of opinion on this site. Does anybody on this forum believe that?

  14. #28
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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix
    I don't know anybody who thinks Bush was chosen by God to be President. We usually have a wide array of opinion on this site. Does anybody on this forum believe that?

    That's the craziest thing I've ever heard of.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  15. #29
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix
    I don't know anybody who thinks Bush was chosen by God to be President. We usually have a wide array of opinion on this site. Does anybody on this forum believe that?
    Doesn't apply to me. I may be wrong, but I thought he was chosen by 59 million or so American voters. And I thought that many votes, along with the guidelines of the Electoral College, meant that he was chosen by the system in this country that is in place to elect our president. Please... correct me if I am wrong!

    I have to ask... did God vote? And if He did, does his vote count for more than the vote of anyone else? Be a great Twilight Zone episode.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  16. #30
    Team Puffy Leadoff Hitter CbusRed's Avatar
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    Re: The Reality of Red State Fascism

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966

    I have to ask... did God vote? And if He did, does his vote count for more than the vote of anyone else? Be a great Twilight Zone episode.
    Yeah, God voted in Ohio, and since there isnt any record of his citizenship, the silly liberals contested the Ohio results.


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