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Thread: John Kerry and his dead horse

  1. #16
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    Re: John Kerry and his dead horse

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro
    Here's a link to the congressional report
    Fox News, Rush, CNN, MSNBC (exception Olbermann) and the rest of the right wing main stream media didn't report it so it doesn't exist.

    the allegations against triad were first raised by Green Party candidate David Cobb, who testified at a hearing held in Columbus, Ohio by Rep. John Conyers of the House Judiciary Committee. In his testimony, Cobb stated:


    Mr. Chairman, though our time is limited, I must bring to the committee's attention the most recent and perhaps most troubling incident that was related to my campaign on Sunday, December 12, about a shocking event that occurred last Friday, December 10.

    A representative from Triad Systems came into a county board of elections office un-announced. He said he was just stopping by to see if they had any questions about the up-coming recount. He then headed into the back room where the Triad supplied Tabulator (a card reader and older PC with custom software) is kept. He told them there was a problem and the system had a bad battery and had "lost all of its data". He then took the computer apart and started swapping parts in and out of it and another "spare" tower type PC also in the room. He may have had spare parts in his coat as one of the BOE people moved it and remarked as to how very heavy it was. He finally re-assembled everything and said it was working but to not turn it off.

    He then asked which precinct would be counted for the 3% recount test, and the one which had been selected as it had the right number of votes, was relayed to him. He then went back and did something else to the tabulator computer.

    The Triad Systems representative suggested that since the hand count had to match the machine count exactly, and since it would be hard to memorize the several numbers which would be needed to get the count to come out exactly right, that they should post this series of numbers on the wall where they would not be noticed by observers. He suggested making them look like employee information or something similar. The people doing the hand count could then just report these numbers no matter what the actual count of the ballots revealed. This would then "match" the tabulator report for this precinct exactly. The numbers were apparently the final certified counts for the selected precinct.

    Triad is contracted to do much of the elections work in this county and elsewhere in Ohio. This included programming the candidates into the tabulator, and coming up with the rotation of candidates in the various precincts (that is, the order of which candidate is first changes between precincts). They also have a technician in the office on election night to actually run the tabulator itself.

    Triad also supplies the network computers on which all of the voter registration information and processing is kept for the county.

    It was unusual for the computers to be taken apart. At least one member of the Board of Elections was told the tabulator was in pieces when he called to check on the office.

    The source of this report believes that the Triad representative was "making the rounds" of visiting other counties also before the recount. This person also stated they would not pass on the suggestion of the "posted" hidden totals, and would refuse to go along with it if it were suggested by the others in the office at the time.

    The source of this information believes they could lose their job if they come forward.

    The source of this information is named Sherole Eaton, Hocking County deputy director of elections. She has since written and signed an affidavit describing her experience with the Triad representative, the text of which is here:



    Go to Original

    AFFIDAVIT
    December 13, 2004
    Sherole Eaton
    Re: General Election 2004 - Hocking County, TriAd
    Dell Computer about 14 years old - No tower

    On Friday, December 10 2004, Michael from TriAd called in the AM to inform us that he would be in our office in the PM on the same day. I asked him why he was visiting us. He said, "to check out your tabulator, computer, and that the attorneys will be asking some tricky questions and he wanted to go over some of the questions they maybe ask." He also added that there would be no charge for this service.

    He arrived at about 12:30PM. I hung his coat up and it was very heavy. I made a comment about it being so heavy. He, Lisa Schwartze and I chatted for a few minutes. He proceeded to go to the room where our computer and tabulation machine is kept. I followed him into the room. I had my back to him when he turned the computer on. He stated that the computer was not coming up. I did see some commands at the lower left hand of the screen but no menu. He said that the battery in the computer was dead and that the stored information was gone. He said that he could put a patch on it and fix it. My main concern was - what if this happened when we were ready to do the recount. He proceeded to take the computer apart and call his offices to get information to input into our computer. Our computer is fourteen years old and as far as I know had always worked in the past. I asked him if the older computer, that is in the same room. could be used for the recount. I don't remember exactly what he said but I did relay to him that the computer was old and a spare. At some point he asked if he could take the spare computer apart and I said "yes". He took both computers apart. I don't remember seeing any tools and he asked Sue Wallace, Clerk, for a screwdriver. She got it for him. At this point I was frustrated about the computer not performing and feared that it wouldn't work for the recount. I called Gerald Robinette, board chairman, to inform him regarding the computer problem and asked him if we could have Tri Ad come to our offices to run the program and tabulator for the recount. Gerald talked on the phone with Michael and Michael assured Gerald that he could fix our computer. He worked on the computer until about 3:00 PM and then asked me which precinct and the number of the precinct we were going to count. I told him, Good Hope 1 # 17. He went back into the tabulation room. Shortly after that he (illegible) stated that the computer was ready for the recount and told us not to turn the computer off so it would charge up.

    Before Lisa ran the tests, Michael said to turn the computer off. Lisa said, " I thought you said we weren't supposed to turn it off." He said turn it off and right back on and it should come up. It did come up and Lisa ran the tests. Michael gave us instructions on how to explain the rotarien, what the tests mean, etc. No advice on how to handle the attorneys but to have our Prosecuting Attorney at the recount to answer any of their legal questions. He said not to turn the computer off until after the recount.

    He advised Lisa and I on how to post a "cheat sheet" on the wall so that only the board members and staff would know about it and and what the codes meant so the count would come out perfect and we wouldn't have to do a full hand recount of the county. He left about 5:00 PM.

    My faith in Tri Ad and the Xenia staff has been nothing but good. The realization that this company and staff would do anything to dishonor or disrupt the voting process is distressing to me and hard to believe. I'm being completely objective about the above statements and the reason I'm bringing this forward is to, hopefully, rule out any wrongdoing.

    Further buttressing Eaton’s claim is an addendum to a previous affidavit filed by Evelyn Roberson who, you may recall, was involved in the Greene County recount action that was summarily shut down by Ohio Secretary of State Blackwell. Her addendum reads as follows:

    <B>Addendum to Declaration of Evelyn Roberson dated December 12, 2004
    Re: Incidents of December 10, 2004



    This is to add to the approximately 1 :15 p.m. portion of the visit with the Deputy Director of Elections Lyn McCoy with respect to the following comment:
    "She said they would have their computer technician check over their computers on Monday in case they has been tampered with."


    the addition is that Lyn McCoy also mentioned to me at the same time that her computer technician was with Triad.

    I declare under penalty of perjury the forgoing is true and correct.

    Dated: December 14, 2004 Evelyn Roberson</B>


    Original versions of these documents should be available later on Wednesday on the website of Rep. Conyers.

    Conyers, upon hearing these allegations, sent a letter to both the FBI Special Agent in Charge in Ohio and the Hocking County Prosecutor. The text of that letter is as follows:

    December 15, 2004

    As part of the Democratic staff's investigation into irregularities in the 2004 election and following up on a lead provided to me by Green Party Presidential Candidate, David Cobb, I have learned that Sherole Eaton, a Deputy Director of Board of Elections in Hocking County, Ohio, has first hand knowledge of inappropriate and likely illegal election tampering in the Ohio presidential election in violation of federal and state law.

    I have information that similar actions of this nature may be occurring in other counties in Ohio. I am therefore asking that you immediately investigate this alleged misconduct and that, among other things, you consider the immediate impoundment of election machinery to prevent any further tampering.

    On December 13, my staff met with Ms. Eaton who explained to them that last Friday, December 10, Michael Barbian, Jr., a representative of Triad GSI unilaterally sought and obtained access to the voting machinery and records in Hocking County, Ohio, modified the computer tabulator, learned which precinct was planned to be the subject of the initial test recount and made further alterations based on that information, and advised the election officials how to manipulate the machinery so that the preliminary hand recount matched the machine count. Ms. Eaton first relayed this information to Green Party representatives, and then completed, signed and notarized an affidavit describing this course of events, a copy of which is attached.

    The Triad official sought access to the voting machinery based on the apparent pretext that he wanted to review some "legal questions" the officials might receive as part of the recount process. At several times during this visit, Mr. Barbian telephoned into Triad's offices to obtain programming information relating to the machinery and the precinct in question. I have subsequently learned that Triad officials have been, or are in the process of intervening in several other counties in Ohio - Greene and Monroe, and perhaps others (see attached).

    There are several important considerations you should be aware of with respect to this matter. First, this course of conduct would appear to violate several provisions of federal law, in addition to the constitutional guarantees of equal protection and due process. 42 U.S.C. §1973 provides for criminal penalties against any person who, in any election for federal office, "knowingly and willfully deprives, defrauds, or attempts to defraud the residents of a State of a fair and impartially conducted election process, by . . . the procurement, casting, or tabulation of ballots that are known by the person to be materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent under the laws of the State in which the election is held." 42 U.S.C. § 1974 also requires the retention and preservation, for a period of twenty-two months from the date of a federal election, of all voting records and papers and makes it a felony for any person to "willfully steal, destroy, conceal, mutilate, or alter" any such record. Further, any tampering with ballots and/or election machinery would violate the constitutional rights of all citizens to vote and have their votes properly counted, as guaranteed by the Equal Protection and Due Process Clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

    Second, the course of conduct would also appear to violate several provisions of Ohio law. No less than 4 provisions of the Ohio Revised Code make it a felony to tamper with or destroy election records or machines.1 Clearly, modifying election equipment in order to make sure that the hand count matches the machine count would appear to fall within these proscriptions.

    Moreover, bringing in Triad officials into other Ohio Counties would also appear to violate Ohio Revised Code § 3505.32 which provides that during a period of official canvassing, all interaction with ballots must be "in the presence of all of the members of the board and any other persons who are entitled to witness the official canvass," given that last Friday, the Ohio Secretary of State has issued orders to the effect that election officials are to treat all election materials as if they were in a period of canvassing,2 and that "Teams of one Democrat and one Republican must be present with ballots at all times of processing."

    Third, it is important to recognize that the companies implicated in the wrongdoing, Triad and its affiliates, are the leading suppliers of voting machines involving the counting of paper ballots and punch cards in the critical states of Ohio and Florida. Triad is controlled by the Rapp family, and its founder Tod A. Rapp has been a consistent contributor to Republican causes.4 A Triad affiliate, Psephos corporation, supplied the notorious butterfly ballot used in Palm Beach County, Florida, in the 2000 presidential election.

    Sincerely,

    John Conyers, Jr.

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  3. #17
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    Re: John Kerry and his dead horse

    First came Deep Throat. Now we have Heavy Coat.
    "You're drunk again. No, I'm just exhausted 'cause I've been up all night drinking."
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  4. #18
    tom browning
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    Tell me we dont need Election reform and paper trails

    Scary stuff here.

    http://nightweed.com/usavotefacts.html

    Did you know....
    1. 80% of all votes in America are counted by only two companies: Diebold and ES&S.
    http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting...804landes.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold



    2. There is no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the U.S. voting machine industry.
    http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0916-04.htm

    http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting...804landes.html



    3. The vice-president of Diebold and the president of ES&S are brothers.
    http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...e_company.html

    http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting...804landes.html



    4. The chairman and CEO of Diebold is a major Bush campaign organizer and donor who wrote in 2003 that he was "committed to helping Ohio deliver its electoral votes to the president next year."
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in632436.shtml

    http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1647886



    5. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel used to be chairman of ES&S. He became Senator based on votes counted by ES&S machines.
    http://www.motherjones.com/commentar...03/03_200.html

    http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting...4fitrakis.html



    6. Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, long-connected with the Bush family, was recently caught lying about his ownership of ES&S by the Senate Ethics Committee.
    http://www.blackboxvoting.com/module...article&sid=26

    http://www.hillnews.com/news/012903/hagel.aspx

    http://www.onlisareinsradar.com/archives/000896.php



    7. Senator Chuck Hagel was on a short list of George W. Bush's vice-presidential candidates.
    http://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_28/b3689130.htm

    http://theindependent.com/stories/05...w_hagel27.html



    8. ES&S is the largest voting machine manufacturer in the U.S. and counts almost 60% of all U.S. votes.
    http://www.essvote.com/HTML/about/about.html

    http://www.onlinejournal.com/evoting...804landes.html



    9. Diebold's new touch screen voting machines have no paper trail of any votes. In other words, there is no way to verify that the data coming out of the machine is the same as what was legitimately put in by voters.
    http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

    http://www.itworld.com/Tech/2987/041...s/pfindex.html



    10. Diebold also makes ATMs, checkout scanners, and ticket machines, all of which log each transaction and can generate a paper trail.
    http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0225-05.htm

    http://www.diebold.com/solutions/default.htm



    11. Diebold is based in Ohio.
    http://www.diebold.com/aboutus/ataglance/default.htm



    12. Diebold employed 5 convicted felons as consultants and developers to help write the central compiler computer code that counted 50% of the votes in 30 states.
    http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,61640,00.html

    http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/301469.shtml



    13. Jeff Dean was Senior Vice-President of General Election Systems when it was bought by Diebold. Even though he had been convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree, Jeff Dean was retained as a consultant by Diebold and was largely responsible for programming the optical scanning software now used in most of the United States.
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0312/S00191.htm
    http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how

    http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf



    14. Diebold consultant Jeff Dean was convicted of planting back doors in his software and using a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of 2 years.
    http://www.chuckherrin.com/HackthevoteFAQ.htm#how

    http://www.blackboxvoting.org/bbv_chapter-8.pdf



    15. None of the international election observers were allowed in the polls in Ohio.
    http://www.globalexchange.org/update/press/2638.html

    http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200...oc_elexoh.html



    16. California banned the use of Diebold machines because the security was so bad. Despite Diebold's claims that the audit logs could not be hacked, a chimpanzee was able to do it! (See the movie here: http://blackboxvoting.org/baxter/baxterVPR.mov.)
    http://wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,63298,00.html

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4874190



    17. 30% of all U.S. votes are carried out on unverifiable touch screen voting machines with no paper trail.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in632436.shtml



    18. All -- not some -- but all the voting machine errors detected and reported in Florida went in favor of Bush or Republican candidates.
    http://www.wired.com/news/evote/0,2645,65757,00.html

    http://www.yuricareport.com/Election...sBushIsOut.htm

    http://www.rise4news.net/extravotes.html

    http://www.ilcaonline.org/modules.ph...rticle&sid=950

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0411/S00227.htm



    19. The governor of the state of Florida, Jeb Bush, is the President's brother.
    http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/talla...al/7628725.htm

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004Oct29.html



    20. Serious voting anomalies in Florida -- again always favoring Bush -- have been mathematically demonstrated and experts are recommending further investigation.
    http://www.yuricareport.com/Election...sBushIsOut.htm

    http://www.computerworld.com/governm...,97614,00.html

    http://www.americanfreepress.net/htm...thousands.html

    http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1106-30.htm

    http://www.consortiumnews.com/2004/110904.html

    http://uscountvotes.org/
    Last edited by tom browning; 01-19-2005 at 01:16 PM.

  5. #19
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    Re: Tell me we dont need Election reform and paper trails

    edited: not a good decision on my part, and violates two of the rules.
    Last edited by Ravenlord; 01-19-2005 at 01:52 AM.
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  6. #20
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: John Kerry and his dead horse

    I love a good conspiracy as much as anyone, but there's at least a chance that there was a legitimate computer problem here. If the guy fixed the computre, and then they reran all optical scans or whatever, wouldn't that be fine?

    Of course, there's always the chance he did do something sneaky, but it seems to me that there's no way to prove it.

  7. #21
    tom browning
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    Re: John Kerry and his dead horse

    I dont know if the election was fixed. I do know that there is a very reasonable chance it was.

    That alone should be enough to have a serious reformed, unquestionable as possible, process. There should be paper trails, bi-paritsan audits and inspections of the machines.

    How can we say this is the best nation in the world when we cannot even trust our own elections?

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    Re: John Kerry and his dead horse

    Of course, there's always the chance he did do something sneaky, but it seems to me that there's no way to prove it.
    George W. Bush is going to be sworn in on Thursday (and Rojo will be hitting the Dewars). Nobody is suggesting that we can overturn that. But what about the next election?

    This is an issue that screams out for a bipartisan compromise. Confidence in the democratic process is eroding. But if all the republicans can do is scream "sore loser" then I have no choice but to get right back on the "dead horse".
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  9. #23
    tom browning
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    Re: John Kerry and his dead horse

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo

    This is an issue that screams out for a bipartisan compromise. Confidence in the democratic process is eroding.
    This is the point. This is an issue for both parties. If we cannot trust the elections held in this country, then we are ALL in serious trouble.

  10. #24
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    Re: John Kerry and his dead horse

    This the thing -- if the GOP doesn't want to clean up the election process then what am I suppose to think? That they like sloppy elections.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  11. #25
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: John Kerry and his dead horse

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo
    This the thing -- if the GOP doesn't want to clean up the election process then what am I suppose to think? That they like sloppy elections.
    With all due respect... speak for yourselves. How come we only need election reform, from one side's perspective, when that side loses two close elections? Could it be that they actually lost those elections fair-and-square? Or when they lose close ones... there must a fix.

    However, some people take the words of Conyers, Boxer, Jesse and the lady from Cleveland to heart. And let us not forget the words of writers on the internet and in publications. Was there this much complaining before the election about these Diebold machines? Some will say yes, but I think most know the truth.

    I happen to know quite a bit about the Diebold company as a former employer of mine was competitor #1 with Diebold. I probably know more than anyone here who has posted internet blogs that demean and make felonious accusations against the Diebold company. I have always thought they were a straight-laced company. Never had a problem with them or their business practices. Perhaps a few more blogs, written by (doesn't matter), will convince me that they are Bush-zealots who stole the election? Nah... I like to think I am smarter than that. And I do know a lot about Diebold and their businesses. And if you have a problem with Diebold... don't use their ATMs!! Oh... you probably do quite frequently and have never worried about your money/transactions (perhaps did not realize that Diebold may be the producer of your fav ATM). If the shoe fits...

    Accusations. Internet articles. Non bi-partisans like Jesse, Boxer, Conyers and the lady from Cleveland. It is all starting to make sense to me... we have a fair system. I thought the same in 1992 & 1996. Kleenex will not have a stock boost due to me. Nope. The system works. The system is fair. And it will be just as fair in 2008... regardless of who wins. Maybe not foolproof, but darn close.
    Last edited by RedFanAlways1966; 01-19-2005 at 03:34 PM.
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  12. #26
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    Re: John Kerry and his dead horse

    What? No Michael Moore mention?
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  13. #27
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    Re: John Kerry and his dead horse

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo
    This the thing -- if the GOP doesn't want to clean up the election process then what am I suppose to think? That they like sloppy elections.
    Call me a cynic, but I'm sure the GOP will be in favor of cleaning up the election process as soon as they start losing elections. Of course, when that happens the democrats will reverse course and be dead-set against it.

    I don't think the opposition to voting reform has anything to do with elephants or donkeys, it has everything to do with winning and losing. No winner EVER wants a recount, and that will include the dems once they start winning again.

  14. #28
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    Re: John Kerry and his dead horse

    Of course, when that happens the democrats will reverse course and be dead-set against it.
    And that would be wrong.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  15. #29
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: John Kerry and his dead horse

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo
    What? No Michael Moore mention?
    Oh... is he working on "Bowling For Diebold"?!?!? About time to drain the wallets of his all-so-loyal fanbase... again!
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  16. #30
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: John Kerry and his dead horse

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192
    Call me a cynic, but I'm sure the GOP will be in favor of cleaning up the election process as soon as they start losing elections. Of course, when that happens the democrats will reverse course and be dead-set against it.

    I don't think the opposition to voting reform has anything to do with elephants or donkeys, it has everything to do with winning and losing. No winner EVER wants a recount, and that will include the dems once they start winning again.
    I wouldn't call you a cynic. I'd call you a realist cause I believe you're 100% right.

    On a side note, I noticed last week that Ohio is going to optical scanners in the voting machines now. No more punch cards.
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