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Thread: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

  1. #166
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    For what you're paying for Wilson and Ortiz, we could just as well landed one good starter to head up this rotation.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

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  3. #167
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Willy
    We basicly traded a cheap #4 starting pitcher of the future for an expensive #4 starter for today. :dflynn:

    Is it me or is this resemble a trade that Jimbo would pull?
    True, but when you don't have even have a #2 starter, you gotta start somewhere. Unless we are willing to trade Dunn (which thankfully DO seems as reluctant to do that as we are) or lock into $20-25M for three years with a FA (something else they have shown no willingness to do), this is what other teams are willing to give up.

    Ortiz is not the answer, but Moseley has mixed reviews around these parts, which tells me no one is real sure what/if he will enjoy much, if any, major league success. Not a great loss on that end from what I've read.

  4. #168
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Not a great loss, unless this deal prevents them from tendering Jimenez.

    If that happens, what's the net gain here?
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  5. #169
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Once again, Jiminez will be in the lineup come Opening Day.
    If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

  6. #170
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    The three things fans wanted the Reds to do this offseason were in no particular order
    1. Spend more money
    2. Get better starters
    3. Do something
    I disagree with this very premise. Some wanted #1, all wanted #2, #3 has so many meanings that's it's really not an accomplishment. Even so, the three aren't mutually exclusive which is what is implied by the notion that this trade accomplished all three so we should be happy. I think people wanted them to spend more money, but spend it in proportion to just how good the said pitcher is. Spending $4MM+ on Oritz is not what anyone who wanted the Reds to spend more money and get better pitching had in mind. And I also don't think Ortiz really qualifies as a "better starter."
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  7. #171
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Ortiz is just as good as pitcher as Driefort, Ishii, and Weaver are an look how much money they make.

  8. #172
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003
    Ortiz is just as good as pitcher as Driefort, Ishii, and Weaver are an look how much money they make.
    That's not saying much.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  9. #173
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels
    That's not saying much.

    I can just hear my mom asking "If your friends want to jump off a bridge, does that mean you should too?"
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  10. #174
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    So, if Ramon Ortiz is offered arbitration by the Angels, you say, "wasn't in the cards" and move on. There are other pitchers out there that will produce the same or better stats over the next two years as Ortiz. The point is they could have kept Moseley and spent the $3-4M on another pitcher if that's the money they had for one. Esteban Loiaza comes to mind as someone that should fall in that range. Same money, probably close to the same stats over the next 2 years, and you keep your pitching prospect in the minors for the "future".
    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
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  11. #175
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Maybe DanO was feels there is as much emphasis to be put on how Gullett handles Ortiz, as there is to how Ortiz handles playing in front of this suicide of a bullpen

  12. #176
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    My biggest problem with this trade is that it goes again everything Dan O has said. Moseley may or may not turned into anything but if you are in the Reds situation you have to find out. Everyone knows this team is not going to win in 05. This is why Jimbo got in trouble, he always played for today. The Reds need to start to develop starting pitchers. They say they are committed to do it, then the go out and trade their closest to the majors pitchers. For this thing to work they need to develop a major league pitcher at least every other year. Even if Moseley turns out to be a solid #4, that is all apart of the process. In 06 or 07 they would of had Moseley in the established in the rotation ready to bring up the next guy(Pauley, Garner). You have to stick with the plan and keep with your young guys. You can't start trading young pitching until you have your system pumping them out on a regular basis. Young pitching is way to valuable. You keep them all, because all of them are not going to to be good. This would have been a more acceptable trade if the Reds had 2 or 3 pitchers at the door o the majors. All this trade did was push the program back a couple of years.

    If we are going to model ourselves after other successful small market clubs, than do it. Would the A's or Twins pulled off a trade like this?

    I'm sick of the Reds saying on thing and doing another.

  13. #177
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    It just goes to show that the Market for Ortiz is alot higher than what people are willing to admit. There was noway that the Angels were going to non-tender him. Yes they were going to trade him but not non-tender. People will say that what the reports are saying but if you believe those reports Dunn is a D-back and Kearns has been traded what 2 or 3 times already.

  14. #178
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Buyers remorse is real at Redszone. Now, Moseley takes his obligatory trip up the prospect ladder because he is gone.

  15. #179
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003
    It just goes to show that the Market for Ortiz is alot higher than what people are willing to admit. .

    Then let some other team trade for him and use that money differently.

    There's no way that Ortiz is going to be more valuable, either now or in the future then Adam Dunn. Money spent on stiffs like Ortiz (and Wilson for that matter) is money not being spent on getting Dunn locked in long term. Money spent of stiffs like Wilson and Ortiz could have very well landed someone like Odalis Perez, someone with upside and, if it comes down to it, much more trade value. Money spent on stiffs like Wilson and Ortiz could/should be spent on other more important long term things.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  16. #180
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    I just think the prevailing thought in regards to this deal is that it will prevent other acquisitions, and of course complicate the situation with Jiminez. I have yet to see anyone especially upset about losing Mosely. I do see the problems with Ortiz's declining k rates, but I also see a pitcher who doesn't walk a lot of hitters and has experienced considerable success in a season where he logged 217 innings... just two years ago. I don't advocate overspending on players, and he is probably slightly overpaid for what his numbers from the last two years dicate. But, as I am sure I made nauseatingly clear in the last year, I believe the Reds can afford this type of commitment, or chance and not feel it. This Payroll is woefully underbudgeted to begin with. I have seen Ortiz pitch a few times, and he definately has a live arm and good movment. He can pitch. Sure, it's a risk. But one where the payoff could be spectacular.

    I'll grade it a B+... Not bad from O'Brien's biggest critic.


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