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Thread: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

  1. #181
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    Buyers remorse is real at Redszone. Now, Moseley takes his obligatory trip up the prospect ladder because he is gone.

    I could care less about Moseley really. There's better ways to spend four-mil then on cannon-fodder like Ortiz. 4-million here (Ortiz), 4-million there (Wilson) and pretty soon you're talking real money (Clement/Perez/LTC Dunn)
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  3. #182
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    I swear I have visions of last offseason's Cory Lidle thread in my head right now.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  4. #183
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor
    Then let some other team trade for him and use that money differently.

    There's no way that Ortiz is going to be more valuable, either now or in the future then Adam Dunn. Money spent on stiffs like Ortiz (and Wilson for that matter) is money not being spent on getting Dunn locked in long term. Money spent of stiffs like Wilson and Ortiz could have very well landed someone like Odalis Perez, someone with upside and, if it comes down to it, much more trade value. Money spent on stiffs like Wilson and Ortiz could/should be spent on other more important long term things.
    Can Perez make 60 plus starts a year? We needed more than one starter and both Ortiz and Wilson could win more games each than Perez does. Dunn hasn't been traded, yet and we don't even know if he wants to stay in Cincy. His agent my be telling him to test the free agent market when his time comes.

  5. #184
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    When you put it that way (minus Wilson and Ortiz add 1 Perez) I want to cry
    Go Gators!

  6. #185
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    I was so hoping DanO would trade Moseley for Randy Johnson ...

  7. #186
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Willy
    My biggest problem with this trade is that it goes again everything Dan O has said. Moseley may or may not turned into anything but if you are in the Reds situation you have to find out. Everyone knows this team is not going to win in 05. This is why Jimbo got in trouble, he always played for today. The Reds need to start to develop starting pitchers. They say they are committed to do it, then the go out and trade their closest to the majors pitchers. For this thing to work they need to develop a major league pitcher at least every other year. Even if Moseley turns out to be a solid #4, that is all apart of the process. In 06 or 07 they would of had Moseley in the established in the rotation ready to bring up the next guy(Pauley, Garner). You have to stick with the plan and keep with your young guys. You can't start trading young pitching until you have your system pumping them out on a regular basis. Young pitching is way to valuable. You keep them all, because all of them are not going to to be good. This would have been a more acceptable trade if the Reds had 2 or 3 pitchers at the door o the majors. All this trade did was push the program back a couple of years.
    nice post. i agree.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  8. #187
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    You know I am starting to feel sorry for DanO. He is Damned if he does and Damned if he don't. He spent the money wrong or he is cheap and won't spend any money. He asked for to much for his players or he he got ripped off and didn't get enough for his players. and on and on and on. Now if Oritz and Wilson win over 12 games each does DanO become ST. DanO.

  9. #188
    Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    I swear I have visions of last offseason's Cory Lidle thread in my head right now.
    Many of the same people who LOVED the Lidle acquisition, are loving the Ortiz acquisition. Go figure!

  10. #189
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Redmachine2003
    Can Perez make 60 plus starts a year? We needed more than one starter and both Ortiz and Wilson could win more games each than Perez does. .

    I'd take a wager that Perez and Hancock (assuming he's the one being pushed out of the rotation by this trade) would out perform Wilson/Ortiz. The difference between Perez and Wilson is much greater then the difference between Ortiz and Hancock, imo.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  11. #190
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    Many of the same people who LOVED the Lidle acquisition, are loving the Ortiz acquisition. Go figure!

    I think the scary thing is that some of the people who didn't like the Lidle acquisition don't feel too bad about this one.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  12. #191
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Wilson should have a decent year again. He is the #1. If Hudson stays healthy, he's good. Claussen should break out this year. He's far removed from his arm problems. I thought Harang had a good year last year. He went thru a great stretch.

    One thing you know is that a pitcher's ERA will drop considerably moving to the NL. If his era drops below 4, he will have a good year for the Reds. Plus there is Hancock for spot starts.

    See, all you have to do is look at the bright side! LOL

  13. #192
    Member CougarQuest's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    If Dan O'Brien was able to turn Moseley into Ortiz, I can't wait to see what he can do with Danny Graves!!!
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

  14. #193
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Daddy
    See, all you have to do is look at the bright side! LOL
    Nope. Not allowed ...
    "People that frequent Internet forums resemble the cast of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest!" - C. J. Cregg, The West Wing

  15. #194
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor
    Because most good General Managers know that W-L record isn't a good indicator on how good a pitcher is.
    What is the most important stat in baseball? I have always thought it was wins and Losses. Just ask Randy Johnson about it right now or any player on a losing team. I bet all the GM's will tell you that too since most of their jobs depend on it.

  16. #195
    Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor
    I think the scary thing is that some of the people who didn't like the Lidle acquisition don't feel too bad about this one.
    I hadn't noticed that, but agree it would be frightening.

    The bottomline is that Ramon Ortiz has a 5.30ERA (and equally distressing peripheral statistical barometers) over his last 46 starts. If you feel those numbers merit $4+ million of our constrained budget, then you probably like this trade. You also probably also don't mind that for the price of Paul Wilson + Ramon Ortiz, we could have signed an exceptional free agent pitcher and still traded a guy like Moseley for a major league arm.


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