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Thread: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

  1. #271
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    I wouldn't give WMP and his amazing "power bat" a LT contract now, I'd overpay for OB% but not power only.
    No kidding--a LTC to Pena after this bone-headed trade? There's only so much I can handle. :dflynn:

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  3. #272
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Are you implying that the baseball business isn't taking place in a vaccum?
    Am I taking that huge leap?

  4. #273
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    I am now not sure I have any idea what the Reds are trying to do. I guess it could make some sense if they sign him to a 2 year not overly expensive deal. If not, I have no idea how this helps the Reds in the long term
    Keeps the fans interested.. that's how it helps the team long term. IMO, when rebuilding you shouldn't completely give up on the ML product. If you neglect the ML product, there's not going to be any fans left in 2112 when the team finallly contends.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  5. #274
    I thought you'd be bigger OldXOhio's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    I'd even go so far to say that if DanO had foresight, he'd try to sign Wily Mo longterm in preparation for dealing one of Kearns/Dunn. Or sign Kearns longterm now while his stock is down.
    not much of a sample size yet to justify signing WMP long term - I'd call doing that something other than foresight.

    agree with you about Kearns though. I think the Reds know exactly what they've got in AK. At this point, I wouldn't consider him near the risk WMP is.
    Originally Posted by nate
    Chapman can be downright pornographic at times.

  6. #275
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    I'm guessing that if DJ is nontendered, it would've happened anyway. Seeing Miley in the press say that he's got to play Freel everyday and seeing DanO bent on putting Kearns at 3b really squeezes DJ.

    If the Reds had an ounce of sense, they'd put Freel at 3b, keep DJ at 2b, and use Wily Mo as the super 4th OF. In the near future, DanO is going to be forced to trade Dunn or Kearns. That's why this whole Kearns to 3b thing is insane (particularly with Jr's health). I'd even go so far to say that if DanO had foresight, he'd try to sign Wily Mo longterm in preparation for dealing one of Kearns/Dunn. Or sign Kearns longterm now while his stock is down.
    Looking at DanO's quotes in the paper today, it appears that D'Lo may be at 2nd come Opening Day. I understand the theory of non-tendering D'Lo or trading him. Freel could play 2nd and he's a better leadoff hitter than D'Lo. But perhaps the Reds are thinking it's better to keep Freel in reserve so when Jr. gets hurt they can shift Kearns back to the OF and slide Freel in at 3rd. Freel also gives you an extra OF and IF off the bench.

    The thing about WMP is that he needs to play as much as possible. He might get 400 ABs as the 4th OF because of Jr.'s inevitable injury. And Kearns isn't exactly Mr. Durability either. But the stars may align and both may be healthy the whole season. That doesn't give Pena much playing time save for the occassional start and pinch hitting appearance.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  7. #276
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    I wouldn't give WMP and his amazing "power bat" a LT contract now, I'd overpay for OB% but not power only.
    All depends on what he's asking for.. He's probably asking for two much.. But hypotethically.. for 5 million over 3 years, I'd consider it. That way, he's an expensive backup if he doesn't work out. Would Wily Mo do it? Probably not, but now's the time to ask (when he's an unestablished 4th OF). Actually, the time to ask would've been before the talk of moving Kearns to 3b...
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  8. #277
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by OldXOhio
    not much of a sample size yet to justify signing WMP long term - I'd call doing that something other than foresight.
    .
    Yes, it's clearly a risk. But that's why you might get him to sign for something like a total of 5 million over 3 years. I'm not suggesting that we offer him something like 8 million year You try to get him to sign a Michael Tucker type contract now and hope he blossoms. If he fails, you haven't lost that much money.

    A small market team has to take some risks, IMO. Playing it cautious with Dunn has now made it virtually impossible to sign him longterm at a discount.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  9. #278
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    The thing about WMP is that he needs to play as much as possible. He might get 400 ABs as the 4th OF because of Jr.'s inevitable injury. And Kearns isn't exactly Mr. Durability either. But the stars may align and both may be healthy the whole season. That doesn't give Pena much playing time save for the occassional start and pinch hitting appearance.
    I see your point.. but is it worth throwing away DJ and being commited to this infield experiment just to give Wily Mo more at bats? IMO, that's a horrible plan.

    I don't know what the Reds are thinking but if they think Wily Mo is a true stud (and that's why they are moving Kearns to 3b), then they might as well trade Kearns for pitching.

    If they are moving Kearns to 3b simply because they have no 3b, they might as well just keep Freel and DJ starting at 2b/3b and let Wily Mo fill in the OF.
    Or they could start the season with Kearns at 3b and Freel as the supersub.
    That way if the Kearns experiment blows up, they have a backkup.

    I like Wily Mo as much as anyone on this board, but it's crazy to throw away DJ and play Kearns out of position to accomodate Pena. He's not that good.
    If his development gets stunted a little bit by only getting 400 AB, I can live with that. I think it's inevitable that Kearns or Dunn will be traded within 2 years anyway.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  10. #279
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    I like the trade. He is already the Reds best starter.

  11. #280
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Keeps the fans interested.. that's how it helps the team long term. IMO, when rebuilding you shouldn't completely give up on the ML product. If you neglect the ML product, there's not going to be any fans left in 2112 when the team finallly contends.
    Yeah, exactly. You need to do some things to keep people interested in the present. That's why Plan A (getting Mulder) would have worked wonders, especially since he's still relatively young too. This isn't too bad of a Plan B though really.

  12. #281
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by 44Magnum
    I like the trade. He is already the Reds best starter.
    Yep...now if we can get an Ace and #2 we should be fine.

  13. #282
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    The Angels also inked Byrd to a 1 year contract at 5 million bucks a year, a 34 year old witha a career 4.33 era is getting some jack after missing all of 2003 and part of 2004. (Jon Leiber kinda)

    Anyway, here's his last 2 season and the jettisoned pitcher.

    Code:
    H/9   BR/9  SO/9  BB/9  SO/BB
    
    9.28 12.92  6.25  3.24  1.93 - 525 innings Ramon
    
    9.16 12.83  6.42  3.30  1.95 - 342 innings Bryd
    Any opinion on that signing?

    Looks pretty "pricy" to me.

    And the market goes up.

  14. #283
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    I'm glad someone finally pointed out that the "non-tender" waiting game can be an incredibly frustrating exercise. It netted us nothing last year, and if there was someone they targeted (debating whether he should be one in the first place is another subject), then dealing instead of waiting and crossing their fingers was a good move.

    But then, I'm sure none of that was considered and only after it was pointed out at Redszone was the oversight realized.

    I think the skinny is that we gave up an average prospect that was not likely to even sniff the majors until next year in this org. for an average vet (he has been a little better than league average in ERA most years) that was likely to get an average wage for his talents no matter who signed him. Considering that, getting a league average pitcher on a staff full of 5+ ERA types (aka below average) is sadly an improvement.

  15. #284
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor

    I think the skinny is that we gave up an average prospect that was not likely to even sniff the majors until next year in this org. for an average vet (he has been a little better than league average in ERA most years) that was likely to get an average wage for his talents no matter who signed him. Considering that, getting a league average pitcher on a staff full of 5+ ERA types (aka below average) is sadly an improvement.
    Even the 3 little pigs had to move from a straw house to a stick house before they could build one of brick.

  16. #285
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Making marginal to bad trades just to do something to keep fans interested is NOT in any way, shape, or form good for long-term business. On the contrary, it's just BAD business. There's one and ONLY one way to keep fans interested in the long run, and we all know what that is. So if the trade isn't going to help in that respect, it does NOTHING for the long term health of the franchise.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David


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