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Thread: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

  1. #121
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by CougarQuest
    I like this trade. Right now, I'd say Ortiz is the best starting pitcher on the Reds staff.
    Sad, but true and that is why this is a good deal IMO. Paul Wilson cannot be your best SP to start the year.

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  3. #122
    Porkchop Sandwiches DoogMinAmo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    I like the trade more if we get some cash, but something tells me no. Anyways, its ok, as a first step, but some sort of male intuition (no, not that kind) tells me that there is more to come from the desk of O'Brien.

    So, not quite two thumbs down, not quite two thumbs up, but :thumbdown
    "I'm a Cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. I'm a cucumber, I'm a cucumber. Please don't send me to the pickle farm, bum." - Brak

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  4. #123
    White Castle to the Nile Crash Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    ROTATION
    Ramon Ortiz
    Paul Wilson
    Aaron Harang
    Luke Hudson
    Brandon Claussen

    Josh Hancock takes over the Van Poppel role.

    BULLPEN
    Graves
    R.Wagner
    Acevedo
    Valentine

    Riedling?
    Mercker?
    Weathers?
    Burba?
    Norton?

    LOUISVILLE
    Coffey
    Bong
    Belisle
    Shakelford
    "I fought because I understood and could not bear to understand, that it was my destiny -- unlike that of my father, whose fate it was to hear the roar of the crowd -- to sit in the stands with most men and acclaim others. It was my fate, my destiny, my end, to be a fan."

  5. #124
    Member Mitri's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by wheels
    Okay so besides losing Moseley, they've in effect signed two free agent pitchers worth nearly or more than seven million...And Matt Clement wanted eight million?

    Hmmmmm....
    Good point, but I think there are other reasons the Reds could not sign Clement.
    We aren't gonna see Clement in a Reds uni next year, Wheels, as much as you and I and just about everyone on this board wanted to. I think this is a decent move for the Reds, nothing earth shattering. Hopefully Ortiz will get a huge boost of confidence by going from the 7th or 8th best pitcher on a club to being the 2nd or 3rd best pitcher on a club.

  6. #125
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Crash Davis
    ROTATION
    Ramon Ortiz
    Paul Wilson
    Aaron Harang
    Luke Hudson
    Brandon Claussen

    Josh Hancock takes over the Van Poppel role.

    BULLPEN
    Graves
    R.Wagner
    Acevedo
    Valentine

    Riedling?
    Mercker?
    Weathers?
    Burba?
    Norton?

    LOUISVILLE
    Coffey
    Bong
    Belisle
    Shakelford

    To start with.

    Though figuring out the Reds staff on Memorial Day is the real trick.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  7. #126
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Did anyone noticed how well he pitched against the Yankees last year...and in years prior to that?

    He seems to be able to get his game up when he has to....now it is of matter of doing it consistently ...so he does not have to worry about going to the pen.

  8. #127
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri
    Good point, but I think there are other reasons the Reds could not sign Clement.
    We aren't gonna see Clement in a Reds uni next year, Wheels, as much as you and I and just about everyone on this board wanted to. I think this is a decent move for the Reds, nothing earth shattering. Hopefully Ortiz will get a huge boost of confidence by going from the 7th or 8th best pitcher on a club to being the 2nd or 3rd best pitcher on a club.
    Of course they aren't going to get Clement, but my point is they should be spending more wisely.

    I'm not so sure about a confidence boost, either. Remember he was just traded from a pennant contender to a cellar dweller for a minor league player.

    Maybe he'll be the next Jose Guillen (but a pitcher), but he could also become the next Ruben Sierra as well.

    It's an iffy deal, but it's all we've got right now and at least we won't see Josh Hancock start twenty or more games.

    How about Skully's later on to discuss this in a more innebriated state?
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  9. #128
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Okay so besides losing Moseley, they've in effect signed two free agent pitchers worth nearly or more than seven million...And Matt Clement wanted eight million?
    DanO - zero value over replacement GM.

    Let's face it folks, these kiss-your-sister trades are why Allen hired him.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  10. #129
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo
    DanO - zero value over replacement GM.

    Let's face it folks, these kiss-your-sister trades are why Allen hired him.
    Allen didn't hire him, he wanted Krivisky.

    And this isn't a kiss your sister trade. You REALLY think you would want to spend 5 million on Ortiz?

  11. #130
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Just looked this up. In Ortiz's career year, 2002, he posted a 3.77 ERA. Outside of that season he hasn't been lower than 4.36 (2001).

    Traditional thinking would be that he did something right in 2002 that he might be able to repeat. Wrong. He did have a higher than normal 6.7 K/9, which surely helped that ERA, but the real reason his ERA was so low was a .241 BABIP, good for fourth in MLB ERA qualifiers that season behind Derek Lowe, Damian Moss and Tim Wakefield (note the two career years there).

    Simply put, the guy had some hit luck one season and looked better than he really is because of it. Unless he gets it again, he's an inconsequential-to-bad pitcher.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  12. #131
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Another Cory Lidle?

    This smacks of last offseason.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  13. #132
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Just looked this up. In Ortiz's career year, 2002, he posted a 3.77 ERA. Outside of that season he hasn't been lower than 4.36 (2001).

    Traditional thinking would be that he did something right in 2002 that he might be able to repeat. Wrong. He did have a higher than normal 6.7 K/9, which surely helped that ERA, but the real reason his ERA was so low was a .241 BABIP, good for fourth in MLB ERA qualifiers that season behind Derek Lowe, Damian Moss and Tim Wakefield (note the two career years there).

    Simply put, the guy had some hit luck one season and looked better than he really is because of it. Unless he gets it again, he's an inconsequential-to-bad pitcher.
    But there is always the possilibity he does 2002 all over again in the National League no less thinks Dan O'brien. DanO is a tool loving Fascist in the game of baseball, not a SABRE driven GM. He probably loves Ramon (baby Pedro) tools and thinks he can rebound in the pitching friendly National league.

  14. #133
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Santo Alcala
    Lance said it today. The Reds drew the same number of fans per game as the 1976 and 1990 World Champs, so ownership has nothing to complain about. But, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this deal on it's own merits.
    I think Lance is a bit off on his math. In 1976 they drew 2.6M - and they were just counting butts in the seats then, not tickets sold like they do now. So that was probably more along the lines of 3M. In 1990 they drew 2.4M. The economy of baseball was as different to the economy of baseball today as apples is to bricks. Free agency didn't begin until after that season. If people believe that the Reds are drawing just fine and shouldn't have to start non tendering players like D'Lo then they shouldn't say that Lindner should open up his wallet and spend more on the team. If that's the case the Reds should be making tens of millions of dollars and they should be spending as much as the Cubs, Cards and Astros are.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  15. #134
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis
    But there is always the possilibity he does 2002 all over again in the National League no less thinks Dan O'brien.
    But that wouldn't be because of his ability. It would be the result of luck. Any mediocre pitcher the Reds throw out there is just as likely to experience thesame level of luck, and for a lot less (see Haynes, Jimmy circa 2002).
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  16. #135
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Dustin Moseley for Ramon Ortiz

    Quote Originally Posted by Aronchis
    But there is always the possilibity he does 2002 all over again in the National League no less thinks Dan O'brien. DanO is a tool loving Fascist in the game of baseball, not a SABRE driven GM. He probably loves Ramon (baby Pedro) tools and thinks he can rebound in the pitching friendly National league.
    That's the thing, Ortiz didn't do anything to make 2002 happen. He just happened to have stricken ball find fielders at an abnormally high rate. He could pitch another 30 years and never get within 30 points of being that lucky again.

    If DanO thinks he sees tools, tools that will make 2002 a repeatable thing, then he's chasing a mirage.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.


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