I am usually the first to bash O'brien, but i feel this was a pretty good trade. Especially if we get a decent ptbn. Corey Lidle wasn't going to bring a top-notch prospect with such a crappy year. At least Lundberg, i mean O'Brien, did something and traded for a, in his words, a "toolsy" player in Moran. Jim Bowden would be proud.
Hmmm, could O'Brien be picking a D/L'd player that he is so excited about?Rob Neyer
Player To Be Named Later
Quite often, you'll read that a player has been traded to another team for "a player to be named later."
There are two restrictions at work here. First, the transaction must be completed within six months. And second, the player named later can't have played in the same league as the team he's being traded to. That's why the player named later is almost always a minor leaguer.
And what if the teams can't agree on who that player will be? This happens rarely, but if no names are agreed upon initially, the clubs will agree on a price to paid in lieu of a player.
Sometimes, at the time of the deal the team receiving the player will provide the other club a list of minor leaguers, and later the club will have their pick of the players on that list. This list is negotiated at the time of the trade. In recent years, the Minnesota Twins lost Enrique Wilson this way. When it came time for Cleveland to make their choice, the Twins did what they could to "hide" Wilson, but the Indians found him anyway.
Finally, sometimes "Player to be named later" is used to trade players on the Disabled List, since it can be embarrassing for a club to trade for a guy who's on the DL
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
From the ESPN article about them acquiring Lidle....
"We were very pleased to be able to add three quality players to our system," O'Brien said.
Sure sounds like we will be getting the third player...although, In Cincy, isnt Cash considered a player??? :mhcky21:
That has Eric Junge written all over it.Originally Posted by CougarQuest
Just curious Steel....Why do you feel that he only negotiated with the Phillies?
Not that I disagree...I just wanna know your thought process.
"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton
The PTBNL might also be someone who was actually the centerpiece to the deal or the second big part. I'm thinking maybe another 2003 draftee who signed late is a possibility (guys have to be signed for a year before they can be traded), although I don't know of any real good players the Phillies drafted last year.
One other thing on the cash/PTBNL discussion: The Phillies press release is the one that said cash or PTBNL. The Reds one only said PTBNL. To me, that's an indication that the Reds are going to end up with a player and not the money.
Stacko Cash is Carl Lindner's favorite player, so we'll probably get him as the PTBNL. We got his cousin Pileo Cash last year.
Yeah, the more I look at it, the more it appears to me to be Junge.
He fits the "looking for major league ready pitchers" mantra that O'Brien has said previously.
It's a PTBNL, because he is injured.
Shoulder surgery from last year, fits the Reds staff requirements. :mhcky21:
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
Because, unless I'm completely misreading a number of posts on this thread, the Phils put in a Waiver Claim on Lidle.
After that, it's either "Work out a deal", "Pull him back", or "Lose him for nothing". Considering the dynamic, I have a difficult time believing that the Reds worked out a more equitable deal than the Phillies (or others) had on the table before the deadline.
This may sound weird, but I think O'Brien won this deal from a talent value/talent perspective. But I think he lost talent versus what he might have been able to have before he was limited to trading with only one team.
"The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer
"The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
--Ted Williams
That's my take also Steel, for the same reasons you cite.
Oh you're talking about this waiver deal only.
I'm a little goofy today.
I just wish he would have come down to reality a little sooner, and maybe shopped these guys in earnest.
Lidle's definitely not gonna command much more than what they got.
"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton
Well Lidle got traded. Lets try and look at the positive side 1)This opens up spot for a younger pitcher to get a chance to show what he's got. 2)we get two or three good younger player with a "chance" to make it to the show. These players could be stepping stone to the majors. 3)Improving our minor league system with new players increases the competition in the Reds minor league system which should produce better players coming out of the system. 4)If we have a better ranked minor league system with several good pitching prospects other teams will be coming to us with better trades. 5)We save some $$ that will hopefully be used some where else in the Reds system for a better future. Or help sign some of our younger players to a long term contract. It looks like Lidle value wasn't a high as Todd Jones but the did get something useful for him. Before we make a complete judgement on this trade we need to find out who is the PTBN & how this player play in our system. I just hope O'Brien can trade Vander Wal and Danny Graves to save a lot more $$ and get some more stepping stones for the future.
:gac:
And I want nothing to do with Eric Junge. I'd rather have the cash.
BTW, I really appreciate your presence here, Stewie. It's great to have input from other team's fans. Good luck to the Phils, sir!
"The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer
"The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
--Ted Williams
It would be nice to get Ramirez as the third player. He is probably the third best pitching prospect in the Phillies system.
If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.
A note on PTBNL.
In the Rocks-Cards deal, BA says the 2 PTBNLs are Narverson(BA #2) and Gall(BA #6). Both much better prospects than the one player announced.
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