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Thread: Lidle traded

  1. #211
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Lidle traded

    Man, we need to get a smart fan from every team to give us good information on all the teams. Although, for some of the teams it might prove quite difficult to find someone fitting that description.

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  3. #212
    Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Re: Lidle traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie
    Actually, in looking at the stats, he is putting up very similar numbers to Wily Mo Pena. So if you want to look at it that way, he is the Phillies' equivalent to WMP.
    Perhaps if Wily Mo Pena was heading towards 26 years of age, instead of 22 (and even the walk-challenged WMP is walking at nearly twice Utley's rate, with far superior power). I can see where the Kent comparison is possibly a valid perception though. A guy who blossoms a little late, who takes a while to boost his OBP high enough to make his Slg% worthwhile. Utley could be a nice infield bat with pop, despite his currently excruciatingly low walk rates.

  4. #213
    Member Stewie's Avatar
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    Re: Lidle traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    Perhaps if Wily Mo Pena was heading towards 26 years of age, instead of 22 (and even the walk-challenged WMP is walking at nearly twice Utley's rate, with far superior power). I can see where the Kent comparison is possibly a valid perception though. A guy who blossoms a little late, who takes a while to boost his OBP high enough to make his Slg% worthwhile. Utley could be a nice infield bat with pop, despite his currently excruciatingly low walk rates.
    Bah! I forgot to look at the ages to compare. My fault on that one. I don't know if I would say that WMP has far superior power than Utley, WMP has 18 homers in 246 ABs, while Utley has 11 in 179 ABs. WMP's rate is higher, but it's not that dramatic of a difference (now admittedly, I haven't seen enough of Pena to know what he will project to be in the future - Utley should be a solid 30 hr guy, though). I was just trying to find an apt player on the Reds to compare Utley to, and the closest I found was WMP, especially given each player's aversion to the base on balls. I did forget to take the age into consideration, though. I should have just stuck w/the Jeff Kent comparison.

  5. #214
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Lidle traded

    Yeah... it was funny because the two players are about as different as could possibly be outside of stats. Utley's a white guy, 6'1", 185, a left-handed-hitting infielder, a first-round draft pick out of UCLA and Pasadena, CA, and his name makes him sound like he's just walked off the set of "Falcon Crest". Pena's from the Dominican Republic, 6'3" 215, a right-handed-hitting outfielder, signed at 16 by a bird-dog scout, and speaks very limited English.

  6. #215
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    Re: Lidle traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Stewie
    Bah! I forgot to look at the ages to compare. My fault on that one. I don't know if I would say that WMP has far superior power than Utley, WMP has 18 homers in 246 ABs, while Utley has 11 in 179 ABs. WMP's rate is higher, but it's not that dramatic of a difference (now admittedly, I haven't seen enough of Pena to know what he will project to be in the future - Utley should be a solid 30 hr guy, though). I was just trying to find an apt player on the Reds to compare Utley to, and the closest I found was WMP, especially given each player's aversion to the base on balls. I did forget to take the age into consideration, though. I should have just stuck w/the Jeff Kent comparison.
    I understand what you are doing, and since you don't watch or follow the Reds, it is tough to know. But, there is no way in the world Utley has Wily Mo power. Wily Mo is often compared to a young Sammy Sosa solely because of his absolutely incredible power. Raw power, I would think it might be difficult to determine who had more out of Wily Mo and Adam Dunn. Now, Dunn is far more advanced as a hitter. But Wily Mo is a Batting Practice draw with his 500+ foot blasts.

  7. #216
    White Castle to the Nile Crash Davis's Avatar
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    Re: Lidle traded

    When was the last time Wily Mo saw 6'3" 215 lbs?

    Wouldn't you say he's closer to 6'4" 245 now? He's a big boy.
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  8. #217
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: Lidle traded

    Yeah, I was just taking the listed weight. They used to list Kevin Mitchell when he was with the Reds at 210, and that was true only if it was kilograms.

  9. #218
    Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Re: Lidle traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Crash Davis
    When was the last time Wily Mo saw 6'3" 215 lbs?

    Wouldn't you say he's closer to 6'4" 245 now? He's a big boy.
    I'd definitely estimate him to be 6'4" 245. Last night I was watching the Redskins/Broncos game and when you see a physical freak like Sean Taylor coming up from a safety position to lay a hit on a RB, or ball hawking to intercept a pass en route to a receiver, you're like: "Holy #@#$ is that a 6'3" 235 safety, with 4.4+ speed, who just came out of nowhere and blew up that play?" WMP has that same type of preternatural size and ability, of a young prodigy whose abilities (though not polished) are sometimes larger than life. Unfortunately, sheer freakish strength, size, speed doesn't translate into guaranteed instant impact in baseball in the way it might in some other sports. However, with the right work ethic and desire to hone his plate approach, WMP has everything it takes to be a one of a kind power producer in this league.

    Stewy: Again, I agree with your Jeff Kent as a ceiling comparison for Utley (and that bodes very well for the Phillies if he follows a similar path). Two things I would point out about the power disparity between Utley/WMP: Data shows that when a 20-22 year old slugger is mashing for power at this level, it's a harbinger of much more prolific power in the future (which is not always indicated when power is evinced at a later age). Secondly, as mentioned before, Utley has the ability to drive the ball, and go deep, whereas Pena has the type of power which lends itself to hitting virtually any pitch he gets ahold of into a different zip code. He has the type of distance power that is only demonstrated by a handful of players in the game at any point in time. *If* he begins to control the strikezone as he matures, that will likely put him in the company of the great sluggers in the game. So, Utley and Pena are just very different types of players, even in the power department, despite the similarity of some of their numbers.

    I think Utley is going to be a solid bat for the Phils for a while though. He's going to be a nice infield bat to have at your disposal.

  10. #219
    Member Stewie's Avatar
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    Re: Lidle traded

    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyenut
    I understand what you are doing, and since you don't watch or follow the Reds, it is tough to know. But, there is no way in the world Utley has Wily Mo power. Wily Mo is often compared to a young Sammy Sosa solely because of his absolutely incredible power. Raw power, I would think it might be difficult to determine who had more out of Wily Mo and Adam Dunn. Now, Dunn is far more advanced as a hitter. But Wily Mo is a Batting Practice draw with his 500+ foot blasts.
    Point taken. Admittedly, I haven't been able to see Reds' games on a day-to-day basis since about last May (when I graduated from Miami), so I haven't seen as much of Wily Mo Pena as I would have liked (all that I have read about him intrigues me). Since the Reds aren't on ESPN all that often, I've probably only seen the guy a few times (and most of those times were during Spring Training). I have seen a lot of Dunn to be able to understand your comparison in raw power between he and WMP. Chase Utley does have good power, and has hit some shots, but it does definitely sound like WMP exceeds him in that category (more so than I originally gave him credit for).

  11. #220
    Member Spitball's Avatar
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    Re: Lidle traded

    I found these numbers interesting when I was comparing the stats of Pena and Utley. Of Pena's 18 homers, 15 have traveled 400 feet or more while Utley has exceeded 400 feet only 3 times in eleven homeruns. As Stormy was pointing out, WMP has big time power.

  12. #221
    Member Stewie's Avatar
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    Re: Lidle traded

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy
    I'd definitely estimate him to be 6'4" 245. Last night I was watching the Redskins/Broncos game and when you see a physical freak like Sean Taylor coming up from a safety position to lay a hit on a RB, or ball hawking to intercept a pass en route to a receiver, you're like: "Holy #@#$ is that a 6'3" 235 safety, with 4.4+ speed, who just came out of nowhere and blew up that play?" WMP has that same type of preternatural size and ability, of a young prodigy whose abilities (though not polished) are sometimes larger than life. Unfortunately, sheer freakish strength, size, speed doesn't translate into guaranteed instant impact in baseball in the way it might in some other sports. However, with the right work ethic and desire to hone his plate approach, WMP has everything it takes to be a one of a kind power producer in this league.

    Stewy: Again, I agree with your Jeff Kent as a ceiling comparison for Utley (and that bodes very well for the Phillies if he follows a similar path). Two things I would point out about the power disparity between Utley/WMP: Data shows that when a 20-22 year old slugger is mashing for power at this level, it's a harbinger of much more prolific power in the future (which is not always indicated when power is evinced at a later age). Secondly, as mentioned before, Utley has the ability to drive the ball, and go deep, whereas Pena has the type of power which lends itself to hitting virtually any pitch he gets ahold of into a different zip code. He has the type of distance power that is only demonstrated by a handful of players in the game at any point in time. *If* he begins to control the strikezone as he matures, that will likely put him in the company of the great sluggers in the game. So, Utley and Pena are just very different types of players, even in the power department, despite the similarity of some of their numbers.

    I think Utley is going to be a solid bat for the Phils for a while though. He's going to be a nice infield bat to have at your disposal.
    Ok, I was able to check out some of the Reds game tonight (had to go to my parent's house where they have that digital cable baseball package thingy), and Pena is definitely a lot bigger than 6'3" 215. That 245 estimate seems to be a lot closer. Of course, in the 2 at bats I saw, he swung at the first pitch, and the 2nd pitch respectively, grounding out both times, so I didn't get too good a look at him. But he does look like a very big kid.

    And that shot by Adam Dunn was sick, and they were saying that Pena hit a ball in BP that bounced off the top of the batter's eye, so now I got a decent idea about him. I'm now convinced he has more power potential than Utley (although Utley did draw a walk tonight, thank you very much ).

  13. #222
    So Long Uncle Joe BoydsOfSummer's Avatar
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    Re: Lidle traded

    Should have seen the foul ball he hit in Cleveland. It almost hit Gund arena. That ball is still going.
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