Sully to Chi Sox with $$$ For PTBNL

**Raisor** · 08-23-2003, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Ga_Red
BUT this Sullivan transaction was a salary dump,
pure and simple, with a prospect who COULD NOT MAKE
THE 2003 SOX TOP 10 LIST
(and which no other other major league team
thought worth enough to put in a waiver wire
claim for)

Wait a second.

Was Hummel ever on the 40 man roster? Did the White Sox take him off the 40 man roster?

They wouldn't have to put him on revocable waivers for this deal.

**Ga_Red** · 08-23-2003, 04:28 PM

2/09/07

**westofyou** · 08-23-2003, 04:30 PM

Was Hummel ever on the 40 man roster?

Yes he was.

Not on the 25 man roster though.

**Raisor** · 08-23-2003, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by Ga_Red
PP,

this would be the prospect rated so highly
that the majority of major league teams
chose not to put in a waiver claim
for him in order for the
the Reds to trade for him?

This, iirc, only applies to players on the 25-man roster. Hummel would not need to clear waivers to be traded.

**pedro** · 08-23-2003, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by PuffyPig
At the time of the trades, Hummel was probablky a higher rated prospect than Belise.

I think both trades were great.

FWIW, belisle was sporting news' #85 prospect, hummel not on list.

BTW- WMP is only other red at #59

**PuffyPig** · 08-23-2003, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by pedro
FWIW, belisle was sporting news' #85 prospect, hummel not on list.

BTW- WMP is only other red at #59

There's lots of differnt lists.

Hummel rated the #3 propsect for the White Sox mid season by Top Propect Alert. Going into 2003, Belise was rated #29 of the Braves by BA.

**guernsey** · 08-23-2003, 10:26 PM

From the Reds game notes:

Chamblee might not stay long with Cincinnati. Next week, the Reds are expected to announce the acquisition of third baseman Tim Hummel, who's reportedly the player to be named later in the Scott Sullivan deal with the Chicago White Sox. Indications are that Hummel will proceed directly to the Reds.

**Krusty** · 08-23-2003, 11:06 PM

Might as well see the final month if Hummell is possibly the answer to our 3rd base dilemna come next season. Larson has shown that he is the second coming of Dave Revering. And Russell Branyan will be nothing more than a bench player.

**REDREAD** · 08-23-2003, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by 37red
They need to kick out the banana man and all of his buddies and make owners sign contracts that will fulfill the needs of providing a MAJOR LEAGUE TEAM, kick out the liers, make them put up or get out.

I just had to give you a big AMEN..

I agree.. this is downright sickening.. I really don't see how anyone can look at the sum of all these trades and say the Reds have added talent.. The talent level of this team continues to go down the tubes..

There was no reason to give sullivan away.. I don't care if he's a pending free agent. The Sox are a contending team, and you make them pay dearly for bullpen help. If they don't pay, you eat that extra 300k for Sully's contract and laugh at the Sox. Then maybe next time the Sox come to talk trade, they won't treat the Red's like the "Cincy superstore". Only trade Sully if you get something that has value..

People used to have a theory that no one wanted to trade with the Reds due to Bowden.. Well, now with Bowden gone, everyone knows they can pluck any player off the Reds making around 1.5+ million for peanuts...

**REDREAD** · 08-23-2003, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by PuffyPig
Salary dump???????

That's simply not true. If the Reds wanted to simply dump salary, they could have allowed the Sox waiver claim, and been freed of Sullivan's entire salary.

actually, I don't think we know if the Sox claimed Sully or not.
That is pure speculation.

Sully might've cleared Waivers, and then the Sox might've called the Reds and said, "we can work out a deal if you pay 1/2 his salary"...

**Ga_Red** · 08-23-2003, 11:54 PM

2/09/07

**Raisor** · 08-23-2003, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by REDREAD

There was no reason to give sullivan away.. I don't care if he's a pending free agent. The Sox are a contending team, and you make them pay dearly for bullpen help. If they don't pay, you eat that extra 300k for Sully's contract and laugh at the Sox. Then maybe next time the Sox come to talk trade, they won't treat the Red's like the "Cincy superstore". Only trade Sully if you get something that has value..

Sullivan has been something like the 62nd "best" relief pitcher in the majors this year (there are 61 RP with at least 30 IP and a lower ERA then Sullivan).
I'm not exactly sure what everyone thinks he's worth, but at his salary and what he's done on the field the last two years, it's not much.

I think the FO did pretty well considering.

**Raisor** · 08-24-2003, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by REDREAD
actually, I don't think we know if the Sox claimed Sully or not.
That is pure speculation.

Sully might've cleared Waivers, and then the Sox might've called the Reds and said, "we can work out a deal if you pay 1/2 his salary"...

The White Sox claimed Sullivan, ensuring that the Kansas City Royals or any other team above them at the time couldn't grab him. At that point, the Reds either had to make a deal with the White Sox or pull back Sullivan. The White Sox are responsible for half of Sullivan's $596,000 sala

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/NASA...=.jsp&c_id=cha

**REDREAD** · 08-24-2003, 12:22 AM

ok, thanks for the link Raisor.. that does prove Sully was claimed.

But Sully had his worst year in 98 ... a 5.21 ERA.. I remember a lot of people on the fastball board wanting to run him out of town,
but he followed it up with 3 great years..

Sullivan isn't THAT old at 32.. He's been hurt this year, but you've
got to ask yourself, what has better odds:

1. Sullivan bouncing back (and he was ok this year) and having a couple more good years.

2. Or having Hummel become a significantly better 3b than our other current mediocre options.

I like #1 better.. If we had gotten a better prospect, this trade would've been easy to stomach.. but this is like so many other give away trades.. Tucker, Williamson, Walker, etc.. if you get zilch in return, it doesn't help you.

**Raisor** · 08-24-2003, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by REDREAD

Sullivan isn't THAT old at 32.. He's been hurt this year, but you've
got to ask yourself, what has better odds:

1. Sullivan bouncing back (and he was ok this year) and having a couple more good years.

2. Or having Hummel become a significantly better 3b than our other current mediocre options.

I like #1 better.. If we had gotten a better prospect, this trade would've been easy to stomach.. but this is like so many other give away trades.. Tucker, Williamson, Walker, etc.. if you get zilch in return, it doesn't help you.

The problem with number one is that Sullivan is a free agent, and there's little chance he'd be brought back. Hummel for five weeks of Sullivan is a deal I can live with.

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