Sully to Chi Sox with $$$ For PTBNL

[PuffyPig]

Originally posted by Chip R
I could see the Cards overpaying for Sully since their bullpen is so bad.He could be that bridge in the middle innings to Izzy.

The Cards have money woes. Thee payroll next year would be substantialy higher with the same team, so cuts will have to be made. They wil not have the money to overpay anyone. And even if they did, Sullivan is not the type of pitcher that you overpay for.

Perhaps one of the cards fans who visit us could comment on whether or not they woudl be in the financial position next year to overpay for a guy like Sullivan, and whether that's the type of guy they would overpay for.

I can see Sullivan with the Cards, but for no more than $750,000 to $1,000,000.

[Stormy]

Receiving Hummel is akin to receiving nothing. He's a poor man's Brandon Larson, which is akin to being nothing. We declined Sullivan's option. We traded him for nothing after we made his FA status a reality. You'd think a guy of Sullivan's pedigree for the pennant run would bring at least someone of minimal value to the team. It didn't, and the visible alienation which resulted by the procedures, will not only likely persuade Sullivan to not consider returning to the Reds, but obviously just hurt the Reds future negotiation stances with key pieces of the puzzle like Reitsma and Dunn who are furious. So much for Sullivan's described "invaluable" work with Ryan Wagner over the next 40 games.

The Reds have it backwards: They have managed to move all the valuable, productive, fairly inexpensive players, and have received virtually nothing of *certain* value in return, (yes we may get contributions from Claussen and Valentine eventually, but the rest is a complete crapshoot and we tossed away a lot of talent, not to get a single MLB ready impact stud in return somewhere)... and conversely have yet to move a single one of the burdensome contracts (which are abundant on this team) ala Bichette for Reitsma.

They are completely rudderless in a volatile sea.

Welcome Hummel, you're instantly the 4th best 3B in an organization with terrible 3B prospects.

[J "Cooper"]

The market has changed in the last 2 years. Teams don't pay big prices for middle relievers anymore because they know they are a dime a dozen.

It's a decent trade if Hummel plays 2nd base. He'll bring a decent OBP and some SLG plus he's 24. It was a good trade. A real good trade.

The Market has changed folks.

[MWM]

What I don't understand is that it seems of Williamson, Sullivan, and Mercker, the Reds seemed to get the best return for Mercker.

I would have thought it would been the exact opposite.

[traderumor]

Originally posted by Chip R
Why, Pittsburgh would want him. Don't you read RedsZone? I suppose there is a good side to Casey's performance the second half of the year.

I don't blame Casey for being upset. I like the trade but if it were up to these guys, they would want their old buddies on the team from now till the day they retire no matter if they suck or not. He did take less money to play here but it's not like he just signed that deal either. Perhaps we can get him back after the season. If not, then vaya con Dios, Sully. Thanks for all your hard work and loyalty.

Chip,

I might be repeating myself to some, but I humbly doubt that someone sits and ponders my posts enough to recall something I said weeks ago. These "oldtimers" and their whining are revealing part of the reason the Reds have been mediocre to poor the last few years, in a Sean Casey led clubhouse. I think there is a desire to win, but not at any cost. They treat the Reds as if they are a fat guy softball team (maybe that's why they got Jimmy Anderson?) that plays ballgames every day and then gets together in someone's backyard for a BBQ and beers after the game.

That's fine if you're playing for who buys the case of beer when they strike out (which would guarantee plenty of ale with this group), but last I checked they are competing for a World Championship. Of course, someone with Casey's collegial, frat brother mentality, he's just reacting to his emotions rather than trying to understand what the team he represents is hoping to accomplish.

I'll listen more when he tells Mandy not to cash his next paycheck because he doesn't approve of the organization's direction and purpose.

[Oxilon]

Are we positive it's Hummel?

According to "The Score" (a radio station in Chicago) the Reds have the option of either Rauch or some Knotts fellow (forgot his name).

Could the Post have screwed up?

[FlyingPig]

I live 15 miles from Charlotte and have seen the Knights play many times this season...My take on Hummell? He's not what we need at third.

Hummell has never impressed me. He doesn't look like a third baseman, nor does he play like one...Tall, wiry, almost too skinny. His arm is suspect, and although he hustles, he never comes up with the big play. He hits ok for a third baseman in AAA, but then again, so does Branden Larsen. He strikes out a lot and hits a lot of ground balls. Not much power.

I don't see this guy replacing Aaron Boone at third for the long term. To me, he's another Larsen or Branyon....one of those players you wait and wait for him to break out but never does. His numbers weren't as good as Larsen's at the AAA level and I don't see him improving at the major league level...

[Red Leader]

Originally posted by Oxilon
Are we positive it's Hummel?

According to "The Score" (a radio station in Chicago) the Reds have the option of either Rauch or some Knotts fellow (forgot his name).

Could the Post have screwed up?

I'm pretty sure it would be Hummel. Jon Rauch is the White Sox top pitching prospect, I doubt they would move him for Sullivan. The other one....can't find anyone named "Knotts" in their farm system, so I'll assume they meant, Cotts, as in, Neal Cotts, and he is pitching on the major league roster now. I doubt they would part with him either. So, my guess is Hummel is the more likely return.

[cincinnati chili]

Originally posted by Red Storm
Receiving Hummel is akin to receiving nothing. He's a poor man's Brandon Larson

Is there such thing as a poor man's .156 career hitter?

NCred. Thanks for the review. Have you seen him play 2b? I know Jimenez has played well, but I wouldn't exactly hand him the keys to the kingdom yet. If nothing else, could he be a platoon guy on the infield.

His lack of power doesn't worry me as much as his lack of walks. If you check his career minor league numbers, he's only had a good on base % in years where he hit .300. Even Alfonso Soriano is finding out that's tough to do in the show.

[CougarQuest]

Originally posted by Oxilon
Are we positive it's Hummel?

According to "The Score" (a radio station in Chicago) the Reds have the option of either Rauch or some Knotts fellow (forgot his name).

Could the Post have screwed up?

That would seem to make more sense, since the Reds PAID money.

Rauch is 6'11", 260 lb righthanded 24, soon to be 25 year old.

[FlyingPig]

Chili, I have not seen him play second, but he does look and play more like a second baseman than a third baseman if that makes any sense.

He definitely isn't a shortstop. I'd say the worst part of his game is his arm...the guy just simply can't throw with velocity.

[buckeyenut]

Originally posted by CougarQuest
That would seem to make more sense, since the Reds PAID money.

Rauch is 6'11", 260 lb righthanded 24, soon to be 25 year old.

If the Post was wrong and the Reds get Jon Rauch out of this deal, they would have gotten a steal if they had paid Sullys entire contract for the year.

I am of the opinion that it is a good deal if they get Hummel, a Mercker type deal (aka great, fabulous, hire these guys as co-GMs right now for the long term type deal) if they got Jon Rauch. No matter how either one eventually turns out.

[guernsey]

From BA Trade Central:

Hummel, 24, was a second-round pick from Old Dominion in 2000. At one point he looked like he'd be the White Sox' second baseman of the future, but the club made trades for players such as D'Angelo Jimenez and Roberto Alomar. Hummel has played just six games at second base this year, instead seeing time at third base and shortstop. He's having his best year ever with the bat, as his 15 homers are two more than he hit in his first three seasons combined. Hummel is hitting .284 with a .349 on-base percentage and .447 slugging percentage in 126 games. He still projects as a second baseman, because his bat would stand out there. His power surge aside, he may not have the pop for third base and lacks the range of a typical shortstop.

[Stormy]

Originally posted by cincinnati chili
Is there such thing as a poor man's .156 career hitter?

Yea, that's kinda the point. Having seen Hummel in Charlotte, and evaluating his overall numbers, he pretty much is a poor man's Brandon Larson. That's sad. Larson eclipsed Hummel's numbers in the same AAA IL this year, obviously - and frankly Hummel is miscast for pretty much every position. He lacks the lateral range, quick turn and instincts for 2B maybe because of his wiry frame), and yet he looks rigid at 3b, and with a less than remarkable arm for the position. Likewise, he's a real tweener offensively who more than lacks the pop to play a corner, and has no real prowess for getting on base. He'll be 25+ before we reach next season, and even with increased power has put up pretty modest numbers at AAA.

There really is no single outstanding aspect of his game. He's bench fodder, unless this team doesn't acquire a legitimate 3B (to bridge the gap to Encarnacion?) in the immediate future, and/or all of the 2B candidates flop.

We pretty much dumped Sullivan just for the sake of dumping him (and saving 1/2 of the already minimal amount owed him on the remainder of the 2003 contract), if this remains our only return.

[Ga_Red]

2/09/07