Sully to Chi Sox with $$$ For PTBNL

[KronoRed]

Originally posted by creek14
So if we call him up now, will the back of his jersey say "PTBNL"?

That sounds good, maybe we can field an entire team of PTBNL's.
Now batting PTBNL number 4.

[SYCMiniBus]

Originally posted by Krusty
Well, it is good to see the Reds get away from going after ballplayers with five-tool potential and acquire players that can play baseball.

Hummell will probably get every chance of winning the 3rd base spot next season. Batting lower in the lineup should help him early on.

Repeat after me tools are a GOOD thing. You guys whine about Casey well here is Sean Casey (except he hasn't hit .300 since A ball). He K's a decent amount see 95 K's in 142 games last season and hits almost no HR's (13 in 3 seasons). I quite honestly do not understand this. He is not high ceiling and not an impact guy. Yes he hustles, but he is not someone that is going to help this organization at all, except for maybe the remaining games of this season as a 3B stop gap.

[Raisor]

Originally posted by princeton
actually, there's a lot wrong with being an average offensive 2Bman if you can't defend the position.

Todd would have to be a tremendous offensive player in order to offset his glove. And, as you say, he's not even above average

there's more to playing winning baseball than offensive numbers. It may be impossible to quantify-- but that doesn't make it less true.

Walker is no where near as bad a defensive player that people seem to think he is.

At the most, he's slightly below average, and I think he's better then that.

He's not Pokey, which is who everyone tries to compare him to, since that is who they saw play before Todd.

[KronoRed]

Tools are fine when the player knows how to use them, the Reds are loaded down with players with tools who have no clue how to use them to play baseball.

[Raisor]

Originally posted by SYCMiniBus
Repeat after me tools are a GOOD thing. .

Tools mean nothing if they aren't used.

I could care less if a guy is fast if he can't get on base. I could care less if a guy can bench press 500 pounds if he can't hit. I could care less if a guy has a great throwing arm, if he can't catch the ball.

I'd sign Weird Al if he could get on base 40% of the time.

[princeton]

Originally posted by Raisor
He's not Pokey

OK, there's something that we'll agree on

(although, in actuality, he's not even Aaron, who succeeded him and was horribly out of position )

[Carter]

When I heard Sully was traded for a PTBNL.. I hoped it would be Rauch. Now, I think the Reds really missed the boat by not taking a chance at getting him. Because if they would have.. that would be our ace out of the rotation. Guy has the build to be one and is has some nasty stuff. But instead we got Hummell. Which I actually don't mind. The guy sounds like he is going to be pretty good. The type of hitter he is.. is exactly what we need. I'm tired of all the free swingers.. get me a good contact hitter with a high OBP anyday.

Todd Walker now.. he had exceptional defense. He hustled he gave it his all. I agree in saying he was a little below average. But he manned the position very well.

[princeton]

Originally posted by Carter
\ Todd Walker now.. he had exceptional defense...I agree in saying he was a little below average. But he manned the position very well.

I'll bite: how can exceptional defense be a little below average?

[PuffyPig]

Suulivan was a FA after this season, so he's gone anyway, unless we sign him, which we can do whether he stays or goes this year. So, anything we get is better than nothing.

The PaleHose claimed him on waivers, so we deal with them or nobody. Sowhat if we paid part of his salary. We were gonig to pay it all without a deal, it's a sunk cost. He actually make out better financially having traded him.

At this stage, he looks like our best bet for starting thirdbase next year. For 6 weeks of Sullivan, that's a tremendous trade. He was one of the Sox' best prospects, and major league ready. He can play a number of infield positions.

I'd say that this is a great trade. Do you really think we would get a number #1 starter for 6 weeks of Sullivan? Sullivan was owed about $700,000 for the remainder of this year, so we also save $350,000.

[westofyou]

"When I heard what we got for him, I nearly threw up. We've been best friends since 1997, since I've been here. It hurts. I don't know how to think of it right now,'' said Graves, the losing pitcher Thursday night against Arizona.

Ya know, I'm not happy that Graves didn't work on pitching out of the windup BEFORE ST, I'm not happy that he didn't come to camp in better shape, because he looks a little soft and he can't ever go more tha 5 innings, lastly I'm not happy that Graves is getting big bucks to be a crappy starter.

[Carter]

Originally posted by princeton
I'll bite: how can exceptional defense be a little below average?

He lacked great range, but the balls he was able to reach he was able to make the play. Of what I remember he didn't have to many errors.

[Carter]

Question: Late last season and offseason.. Rangers had Blalock on the block.. what was the offer RedsZone came up with? I can't quite remember.. I want to say that it was Sullivan being rumored to the Rangers for him.

Also.. do you remember in 1999 the Astro's wanting Sully.. and the "rumor" was we would be getting Berkman in return. That of course was before his breakout.

[REDREAD]

Originally posted by Raisor
Sullivan's contract had already been bought out, last year.

He's a free agent in 2004.

ok, thanks, I didn't realize that.

[SYCMiniBus]

Ok, so we didn't get a toolsy guy, and people rejoice. Congrats the Reds traded for Ryan Freel except with out the speed. Call me crazy but Ryan Freel's with out speed are about a dime a dozen. I think Bowden made way to much of toolsy guys, which I has made people think tools are a bad thing. Wouldn't be ironic if the guy that pushes the A's over the edge and helps them win a playoff series or World Series is a "toolsy" OF who never takes a walk? And where in the Reds sytem do you see players who "are loaded down with players with tools who have no clue how to use them to play baseball."
In the minors outside of Tony Blanco I am not really seeing any. Schramek, Votto, and Smitherman are not toolsy guys. Edwin Encarnacion is a toolsy guy, but he knows how to use them. This a big perception vs. reality issue right here

[westofyou]

BP 2003

Hummell has been the 2nd baseman of the future since he was drafted back in 2000. But hasn't progressed as much as the Sox had hoped he would and the arrival of Jimenz puts a dent in his future, he'll be a SS for the Knights in 2003 , then the Sox can evaluate his ability there once Valentine moves on.

=======================================

I like getting ANY IF with the ability to play more than 3 positions.

Redread, Sullivan is a 32 year old reliever with a MESS of innings whose performance had leveled out, he was making over 2 million bucks.

Starting Castro at 3rd and keeping Sullivan would have been the WORST thing the Reds could do.

How can you attack the FO for money moves with they are doing what every team in the history of the game has done?

Selling strengths to shore up weaknesses.

This team needs Castro at 3rd and Sully in the bullpen for a whole season for what?

No team wins with a 3rd baseman who gets on base 26% of the time he comes to bat, even if they can keep a workhorse reliever who makes more than he should.