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Thread: Beautiful Day in Iraq

  1. #16
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    Wow, watching the news the past few weeks you would have thought that a 25% turnout would be optimistic.
    Imagine that - the media being pessimistic and presenting the worst case scenario.

    Of course to hear the media, one would have thought that the Iraqi's had no interest in voting and longed for the days of Saddam.
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

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  3. #17
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by creek14
    Imagine that - the media being pessimistic and presenting the worst case scenario.

    Of course to hear the media, one would have thought that the Iraqi's had no interest in voting and longed for the days of Saddam.

    Yep, my point exactly.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  4. #18
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Mission Accomplished! I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

  5. #19
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman
    Mission Accomplished! I see the light at the end of the tunnel.


    I know you're being sarcastic, but it almost sounds like you're disappointed.

    Is this not good news?
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  6. #20
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by RFS62
    I know you're being sarcastic, but it almost sounds like you're disappointed.

    Is this not good news?
    I'm not being sarcastic and I'm certainly not disappointed. It's great news, Just like it was great news when we liberated Baghdad, great news when the president declared "major combat operations have ended" (May 2003), great news when we arrested Saddam Hussein, and great news when we handed over soverignty to Ayad Allawi. And it'll be great news when we can bring our boys and girls home.

  7. #21
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Because as we all know, Rome was indeed built in a day.
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  8. #22
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Great news! I think our adminstration deliberately downplayed what the voter turnout would be though (and it was a wise strategy IMO), so that when we see how many turned out today it would raise people's optimism (because most were projecting a dampened turnout).

    Our media is wrong again!
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  9. #23
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    I'm curious about this whole turnout thing in Iraq. I'm not trying to shed a negative light on this thing. Honestly I'm not. I do believe this was a great day for Iraq. But I'd be curious to see just how many people registered as opposed to the number who registered who actually showed up to vote. The amount registered might be high as well and that would be great. But if only 20% of the people registered who could have registered, having a high percentage of those actually show up is a step in the right direction, but not exactly a sweeping victory. I would think that if people just registered recently, there was a great chance it was because they planned on voting.

    So does anyone have any figures on what percentage of the eligible population actually registered? I think that would be a better barometer of how far they've come.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  10. #24
    Time is the Revelator. LvJ's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Simply proud to be who I am. What a wonderful day.

    A..
    Thank you to the Bush administration and of course the troops from all over the world who have made this all possible.
    Thank you to the Iraqi civilians for having the courage and strength to withstand the horrible days of Saddam, to withstand the horrible, but optimistic days of war and terror, and to walk outside your home and put your lives in the hands of the right people and made your vote count!
    Hide your power alleys; Hide your wife

  11. #25
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Because as we all know, Rome was indeed built in a day.
    Maybe some of the people crowing "mission accomplished" should think about that.

    This is an important step, but only one step. There are many, many more things that need to happen. So be happy, but don't think for one second that the job is done.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  12. #26
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Radioactive Afterglow
    Posted by James Wolcott

    "Yesterday on one of the Fox financial shows, James Rogers, author of Investment Biker, commodities guru, and neighbor-down-the-block (an utterly irrelevant detail I thought I'd toss in to make this blog sound more "personal"), was asked by host Neil Cavuto whether the elections in Iraq would be successful. Rogers said, "They'll be successful because the media will say they're successful," adding impishly, "Fox News probably already has the results."

    Rogers was right. Barring catastrophic violence, the media was prepared to hail the elections as a triumphant day for Democracy. Despite all the talk about the Liberal Media playing spoilsport and wanting the elections to fail (a syndicated cartoon strip--State of the Union, by Carl Moore, the worst scrawler ever to pick up an eyeliner pencil and doodle in the dark, depicted "the liberal media" trying to stomp out the balloting in league with Arab tyrants and terrorists), the coverage yesterday was resolutely upbeat and near-ecstatic today. Yesterday, CNN had cameras around the U.S. where Iraqi expats were voting...one correspondent mentioned that only 26,000 Iraqi exiles out of nearly a quarter million eligible to vote even bothered to register, a remark completely ignored by the glossy, Desperate Housewives-looking anchor, who chirped something about the "pride" beaming from every face. Dan Rather couldn't have sounded more positive about what was unfolding, talking about the blue ink on the thumbs of voters bearing the indelible sign of freedom, etc., not that such inspirational talk will do him a damn bit of good with his fanged detractors. Peter Jennings also highlighted the most positive developments taking place, with none of the raised eyebrows or sardonic undertones for which he's always accused. No, despite all the talk of the Liberal Media or the MSM sympathizing with the insurgents and rooting for disaster, the coverage was geared for good news. Robert Fisk, in the Independent UK:

    "The media boys and girls will be expected to play along with this. 'Transition of power,' says the hourly logo on CNN’s live coverage of the election, though the poll is for a parliament to write a constitution and the men who will form a majority within it will have no power.

    "They have no control over their oil, no authority over the streets of Baghdad, let alone the rest of the country, no workable army or loyal police force. Their power is that of the American military and its 150,000 soldiers whom we could see at the main Baghdad intersections yesterday.

    "The big television networks have been given a list of five polling stations where they will be 'allowed' to film. Close inspection of the list shows that four of the five are in Shia Muslim areas – where the polling will probably be high – and one in an upmarket Sunni area where it will be moderate. Every working class Sunni polling station will be out of bounds to the press. I wonder if the television lads will tell us that today when they show voters 'flocking' to the polls."

    They did just that.

    Which is not to take away from the bravery of the Iraqi people who did make it to the polls, particularly in the most dangerous cities. As Chris Albritton concludes in Back to Iraq, today was a symbolic victory for the Iraqi people over the bombers and beheaders. Indeed, their example should shame Americans, who have curled up into a fetal position with cowardice since 9/11, wanting to the state to make them feel "safe" no matter what the cost to civil liberties and personal freedom here and abroad.

    What I dread is how this day will be used by the new centurions. The Iranian blogger Hoder, with whom I had the pleasure to lunch when he visited New York (something I haven't mentioned previously, for worry it would ruin his rep and get him de-linked by certain sulky bloggers), sensibly, succinctly observes today, "On the one hand I'm really excited that Iraqi people have been able to start the path to a potentially democratic political system, on the other hand I'm really upset that this will embolden neoconservatives and will be seen as a confirmation of their dangerous plans for the world."

    The Iraqization of Iraq, the democratization of Iran--it's all part of the same endless, widening bombing run."

  13. #27
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    If the final percentages say that more than 3/5 of Iraqis voted then I'll be impressed. But it doesn't surprise me to see people jumping to conclusions without any hard evidence to back up their claims.

    This also seems to be another one of those times where dissent simply isn't tolerated, and that's a shame. I personally think today's elections have changed nothing. I probably won't get attacked for that, because, after all, the rules have changed, but I know that stance will annoy many who want to bask in the glow of our "success".

    Just like when we took Baghdad.

    Just like when we captured Saddam.

    Just like when we took Fallujah (for the second time).

    And nothing has changed. People are still dying in large numbers every day in Iraq because of the unstable situation that America's actions have caused.

    I can remember asking on this board how long it would be before conservatives would admit that WMD weren't going to be found. Three months? Six months? A year?

    And not surprisingly there are still people who just can't admit that they were never there.

    But I'm going to ask a similar question. How long must the killing and the instability go on in Iraq before we admit that we've failed? If you support the war there must be some kind of deadline right? It's unreasonable not to have one. Colin Powell agrees with me.

    So if Iraq is still unstable in a year have we failed? Two years? Five years?

    Rome wasn't built in a day, but can we turn Iraq into a stable, functioning democracy in a decade? Is it really worth it if it takes two years? Is it worth it if it takes five? Ten?

    Here's a challenge to the conservatives on the board. A challenge that the Bush administration can't meet. Give me a timeline for a successful Iraq. I don't need the whys or the hows, just tell me how long is too long? How much money is too much? Are we seeing a good return on investment?

    Could you tell a dead soldier's mother that this has all been worth it?

    More power to you if you can. But I don't understand it. I don't understand celebrating hollow victories just because it helps you feel better about the decisions that our president has made.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
    --Oscar Wilde

  14. #28
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Amen , Brother.

  15. #29
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful
    I can remember asking on this board how long it would be before conservatives would admit that WMD weren't going to be found. Three months? Six months? A year?

    And not surprisingly there are still people who just can't admit that they were never there.
    there were no WMDs per the final report. leading up through the war, and before the final report, i had truly believed they would be found. i do think they existed, but i think logically most were sold to other nations and the rest destroyed. either way, WMDs was a very very stupid reason to invade.

    But I'm going to ask a similar question. How long must the killing and the instability go on in Iraq before we admit that we've failed?
    it'll probably be 10 or 15 years before i can form an opinion on that. i think it'll be one of those things that is done entirly in hindsight. speaking of which, it sounds like you think failure has already happened.

    which leads to the next logical question to me, (based on listening to callers on WLW) how come those who keep saying that almost seem overjoyed at the idea of failure?

    If you support the war there must be some kind of deadline right? It's unreasonable not to have one. Colin Powell agrees with me.
    good question. i'd say something like 5 or 6 years before a stablized government, and probably 30-40 years before total troop withdrawl.


    Rome wasn't built in a day, but can we turn Iraq into a stable, functioning democracy in a decade? Is it really worth it if it takes two years? Is it worth it if it takes five? Ten?
    depending on your view of human rights, it's worth wheather or not it takes 1000 years. since we went in for WMDs, and since no ties to al-Quada (sp) were found, i think the entire thing is a wash now.


    Give me a timeline for a successful Iraq. I don't need the whys or the hows, just tell me how long is too long? How much money is too much? Are we seeing a good return on investment?
    not possible to answer with current information. it'll be many years after it's all done before the information needed will be availble to the public.

    I don't understand celebrating hollow victories just because it helps you feel better about the decisions that our president has made.
    agreed. but i don't think the election or Saddam's capture were hollow by any means.
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  16. #30
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    A great thing! And I try to tell myself that for every Iraqi who thinks President Bush is a great man there is probably a liberal in our FREE COUNTRY looking for any reason to downplay the election in Iraq. And to those people in our country, I say, "The election here is over, so get over it."

    Believe me... what many take for granted here is not taken for granted in Iraq. And for those who do not feel that the election in Iraq is a great thing and want to badmouth anything to do with Iraq... so sorry for your dismay.

    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.


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