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Thread: Beautiful Day in Iraq

  1. #31
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    This is an important step, but only one step. There are many, many more things that need to happen. So be happy, but don't think for one second that the job is done.
    I don't think anyone is thinking or advocating that. It's simply an important step, maybe even a "baby step", in the rebuilding/reconstruction process.

    It was pretty awesome though watching video of families going to the polling places, and taking their kids, and allowing them to drop the ballot into the box.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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  3. #32
    Dunnilicious creek14's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Maybe some of the people crowing "mission accomplished" should think about that.

    This is an important step, but only one step. There are many, many more things that need to happen. So be happy, but don't think for one second that the job is done.
    You're telling me the job isn't done. That's funny. I had 15 emails this AM reminding me that they job isn't done. I'll be here 12 hours each day for the next 5 out of 7 days trying to make sure the job gets done.

    Yet it seems some people want to say the election isn't even a step towards getting the job done. "Yeah this country hasn't had elections in 50 years, and they voted today under threat of death, but it's no big deal."
    Will trade this space for a #1 starter.

  4. #33
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by creek14
    You're telling me the job isn't done. That's funny. I had 15 emails this AM reminding me that they job isn't done. I'll be here 12 hours each day for the next 5 out of 7 days trying to make sure the job gets done.

    Yet it seems some people want to say the election isn't even a step towards getting the job done. "Yeah this country hasn't had elections in 50 years, and they voted today under threat of death, but it's no big deal."
    What, are you counting votes over there?

  5. #34
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Yet it seems some people want to say the election isn't even a step towards getting the job done.
    I agree with you. I think this election is something to be happy about. But celebrating this election and calling it "the birth of democracy in Iraq" is like building a house and throwing a party when the foundation is poured. There is a long way to go before the house is habitable.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  6. #35
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    I wonder how long it will be before we find out who won, and what that winner represents to the people?

    How in the heck can someone go out and campaign when the fear of having your car blown up by a RPG is there.

    Crazy situation, and those people who went out and voted are brave beyond belief.
    I think the Iraqi people should be applauded.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  7. #36
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman
    Radioactive Afterglow
    Posted by James Wolcott

    "Yesterday on one of the Fox financial shows, James Rogers, author of Investment Biker, commodities guru, and neighbor-down-the-block (an utterly irrelevant detail I thought I'd toss in to make this blog sound more "personal"), was asked by host Neil Cavuto whether the elections in Iraq would be successful. Rogers said, "They'll be successful because the media will say they're successful," adding impishly, "Fox News probably already has the results."

    Rogers was right. Barring catastrophic violence, the media was prepared to hail the elections as a triumphant day for Democracy. Despite all the talk about the Liberal Media playing spoilsport and wanting the elections to fail (a syndicated cartoon strip--State of the Union, by Carl Moore, the worst scrawler ever to pick up an eyeliner pencil and doodle in the dark, depicted "the liberal media" trying to stomp out the balloting in league with Arab tyrants and terrorists), the coverage yesterday was resolutely upbeat and near-ecstatic today. Yesterday, CNN had cameras around the U.S. where Iraqi expats were voting...one correspondent mentioned that only 26,000 Iraqi exiles out of nearly a quarter million eligible to vote even bothered to register, a remark completely ignored by the glossy, Desperate Housewives-looking anchor, who chirped something about the "pride" beaming from every face. Dan Rather couldn't have sounded more positive about what was unfolding, talking about the blue ink on the thumbs of voters bearing the indelible sign of freedom, etc., not that such inspirational talk will do him a damn bit of good with his fanged detractors. Peter Jennings also highlighted the most positive developments taking place, with none of the raised eyebrows or sardonic undertones for which he's always accused. No, despite all the talk of the Liberal Media or the MSM sympathizing with the insurgents and rooting for disaster, the coverage was geared for good news. Robert Fisk, in the Independent UK:

    "The media boys and girls will be expected to play along with this. 'Transition of power,' says the hourly logo on CNN’s live coverage of the election, though the poll is for a parliament to write a constitution and the men who will form a majority within it will have no power.

    "They have no control over their oil, no authority over the streets of Baghdad, let alone the rest of the country, no workable army or loyal police force. Their power is that of the American military and its 150,000 soldiers whom we could see at the main Baghdad intersections yesterday.

    "The big television networks have been given a list of five polling stations where they will be 'allowed' to film. Close inspection of the list shows that four of the five are in Shia Muslim areas – where the polling will probably be high – and one in an upmarket Sunni area where it will be moderate. Every working class Sunni polling station will be out of bounds to the press. I wonder if the television lads will tell us that today when they show voters 'flocking' to the polls."

    They did just that.

    Which is not to take away from the bravery of the Iraqi people who did make it to the polls, particularly in the most dangerous cities. As Chris Albritton concludes in Back to Iraq, today was a symbolic victory for the Iraqi people over the bombers and beheaders. Indeed, their example should shame Americans, who have curled up into a fetal position with cowardice since 9/11, wanting to the state to make them feel "safe" no matter what the cost to civil liberties and personal freedom here and abroad.

    What I dread is how this day will be used by the new centurions. The Iranian blogger Hoder, with whom I had the pleasure to lunch when he visited New York (something I haven't mentioned previously, for worry it would ruin his rep and get him de-linked by certain sulky bloggers), sensibly, succinctly observes today, "On the one hand I'm really excited that Iraqi people have been able to start the path to a potentially democratic political system, on the other hand I'm really upset that this will embolden neoconservatives and will be seen as a confirmation of their dangerous plans for the world."

    The Iraqization of Iraq, the democratization of Iran--it's all part of the same endless, widening bombing run."
    I love it. Media types that have been true blue anti-war throughout are going to go with the flow on the election? Taking one for the team? So, since those who have been negative throughout about our efforts in Iraq must be embellishing if they are reporting good news with respect to the election. Horse hockey.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  8. #37
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Sometimes elections go well (Vaclav Havel, Violetta Chamorro), sometimes they don't (Ngo Dinh Diem, Hugo Chavez).

    It's a good sign people turned out to vote, but it would be folly to assume they're voting in order to ratify Western secularism. Indeed it's possible that all we've done is create the mechanism by which Iraq will transform itself into the mirror image of Iran.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  9. #38
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    It's a good sign people turned out to vote, but it would be folly to assume they're voting in order to ratify Western secularism.
    Western secularism, eh? That's becoming more of an oxymoron every day.
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  10. #39
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    Western secularism, eh? That's becoming more of an oxymoron every day.
    Ain't that the truth?

    The grand irony in all of this is that the more polarized and extreme fundamentalist sects in the Islamic world get, the more polarized and extreme fundamentalist sects in the Christian world get. You'd think the "West" would want to show what 200-400 years of separation of church and state is good for ( the Enlightenment, the Scientific Revolution of the 17th and 18th centuries, American Democracy [another encroaching oxymoron]). But instead, many in the "West" are comfortable dragging their knuckles back inside Plato's Cave to get rocks to beat up the "Mohametan infidel."

    The Dark Ages revisited.

  11. #40
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    From 1967:

    http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nytimes/...Y+VIETNAM+VOTE

    U.S. ENCOURAGED BY VIETNAM VOTE; Officials Cite 83% Turnout Despite Vietcong Terror

    WASHINGTON, Sept. 3 United States officials were surprised and heartened today at the size of turnout in South Vietnam's presidential election despite a Vietcong terrorist campaign to disrupt the voting.
    You can read the whole article here:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/31/2335/87390

    I hadn't realized South Vietnam had elections. Puts things in perspective I think.
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  12. #41
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by letsgojunior
    One thing I was impressed with watching the news this morning was how many women were voting.
    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinio...1&searchdiff=2

    I am an Iraqi woman, and I am boycotting the elections. Women who do vote will be voting for an enslaved future. Surely, say those who support these elections, after decades of tyranny, here at last is a form of democracy, imperfect, but democracy nevertheless?

    In reality, these elections are, for Iraq's women, little more than a cruel joke. Amid the suicide attacks, kidnappings and U.S.-led military assaults since Saddam Hussein's fall, the little-reported phenomenon is the sharp increase in the persecution of Iraqi women. Women are the new victims of Islamic groups intent on restoring a medieval barbarity and of a political establishment that cares little for women's empowerment.

    Having for years enjoyed greater rights than other Middle East women, women in Iraq are losing even their basic freedoms -- the right to choose their clothes, the right to love or marry whom they want. Of course women suffered under Saddam. I fled his cruel regime. I personally witnessed much brutality but the subjugation of women was never a Baath Party goal. What we are seeing is deeply worrying: a reviled occupation and an openly reactionary Islamic armed insurrection taking Iraq into a new dark age.
    Rest of the editorial at the link.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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  13. #42
    Team Puffy Leadoff Hitter CbusRed's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Isn't it funny that when P-Diddy gives the ultimatum "Vote or Die" only 33% of our nation comes to the polls, but when terrorists in Iraq say "Vote and Die" there is a 60% turnout?

  14. #43
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by CbusRed
    Isn't it funny that when P-Diddy gives the ultimatum "Vote or Die" only 33% of our nation comes to the polls, but when terrorists in Iraq say "Vote and Die" there is a 60% turnout?
    The US had a 59.6% turnout of eligible voters in the 2004 presidential election.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
    --Oscar Wilde

  15. #44
    Team Puffy Leadoff Hitter CbusRed's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful
    The US had a 59.6% turnout of eligible voters in the 2004 presidential election.
    Read my comment again..

    I said nothing about registered voters.

    fact is 60% of the citizens of Iraq voted

    Only 33% of our country voted


    I know you are quick to attempt to prove a republican wrong, but perhaps you should at least try to comprehend before you pull the trigger.

  16. #45
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by CbusRed
    Read my comment again..

    I said nothing about registered voters.

    fact is 60% of the citizens of Iraq voted
    That's not a fact. The final numbers are not yet in, and I guarantee you the numbers being tossed around aren't of citizens overall. They are of eligible voters. If 60% of all Iraqi citizens voted then that would mean nearly 100% of those eligible to vote voted. You do realize that Iraq has children don't you?

    Here's a crazy statistic:

    0% of ineligible voters, the vast, vast majority of them children, voted in the US. I guess P Diddy just didn't do a good enough job convincing those under the age of 18 to vote?
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
    --Oscar Wilde


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