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Thread: Beautiful Day in Iraq

  1. #61
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    When you can't attack the message, attack the source.
    Perhaps you should read the whole post... or just see the glass as 40% empty like the other person. Perception... a funny thing.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

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  3. #62
    Member Red Heeler's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966
    Coming from an American in Boston... means nothing. As a matter of fact it sounds downright arrogant.

    Ask an Iraqi. Maybe one who has been afraid of being killed or having their family killed at anytime. Maybe one who has had family members dragged out of their home in the middle of the night never to be seen again. 39 years.

    An American from Boston has not been there before. He cannot act like he has been there before. He votes at his leisure and does not worry about being killed while voting. He has had the opportunity to vote since he was 18 years-old each and every time. Act like you've been there? HAVE YOU? No answer needed... b/c it is NO. But feel free to ask an Iraqi.

    You have to take the 1st step to get anywhere. And, similiar to the famous words of an astronaut named Armstrong, it can be a giant leap for Iraq. If you cannot ask an Iraqi... find a senior African American who grew up in the South of this country. Not the same... but close enough.
    I think you missed the point that M2 was trying to make. He wasn't saying that the Iraqis should act like they have been there before. He was saying that Americans shouldn't act like the fact that the Iraqis voted is the be-all-and-end-all. It is a step in the right direction. Nothing more and nothing less.

  4. #63
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Heeler
    I think you missed the point that M2 was trying to make. He wasn't saying that the Iraqis should act like they have been there before. He was saying that Americans shouldn't act like the fact that the Iraqis voted is the be-all-and-end-all. It is a step in the right direction. Nothing more and nothing less.
    Yep, though I suspect there's little point in trying to be rational about this.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  5. #64
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Heeler
    I think you missed the point that he was trying to make. He wasn't saying that the Iraqis should act like they have been there before. He was saying that Americans shouldn't act like the fact that the Iraqis voted is the be-all-and-end-all. It is a step in the right direction. Nothing more and nothing less.
    I can agree to some extent. However, I think Americans can be happy. The U.S. has given a lot to get to this point. And I think that "be-all-end-all" is a misconception. I don't see it that way. I don't know of anyone that I have spoken to who sees it that way. But seeing those Iraqi people putting ballots in the box is the first step... and a large step in the right direction.

    Americans should be proud to see Iraqi people dancing. Americans should be proud to see Iraqi people crying after getting to finally vote. There is plenty of gloom-and-doom to go around in this world. It is okay to be happy and be proud as an Americna to see Iraqi people vote.

    Far from over... but I won't go on the record as comparing the 2-day old election to Vietnam. As some won't "question" those who make those bold comments. Try rationalizing that...
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  6. #65
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by WebScorpion
    I do hope you're being sarcastic. If not, maybe you should try not to put everything in a little box with a label on it. Many people form their opinions independent of party affiliation, religion, friends' opinions, etc. It is possible to be against the war, but still in favor of freedom.

    I'm in favor of freedom, but I'm opposed to people telling me how I'm supposed to feel about things. I'm particularly opposed to certain people telling me that I'm not taking enough pleasure in all the good news coming out of Iraq.

  7. #66
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman
    I'm in favor of freedom, but I'm opposed to people telling me how I'm supposed to feel about things. I'm particularly opposed to certain people telling me that I'm not taking enough pleasure in all the good news coming out of Iraq.
    Shut up and smile.

    Shut up and vote.

    Shut up and goosestep.

  8. #67
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Or everyone's new favorite phrase "Get over it."
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  9. #68
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Or everyone's new favorite phrase "Get over it."
    After all the accountability moment has passed.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
    --Oscar Wilde

  10. #69
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    I can see where this thread is headed and I don't like it. We've been there many times before.

    Please prove me wrong. Just a friendly reminder to everyone.
    Last edited by paintmered; 02-01-2005 at 06:18 PM.
    What if this wasn't a rhetorical question?

    All models are wrong. Some of them are useful.

  11. #70
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful
    We supported him every step of the way. Is there anything you'd hold your country accountable for?
    Come on Redsfaithful, we did not support him EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. Please tell me how we supported him breaking the cease-fire agreements from the Gulf War for one.

  12. #71
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix
    Come on Redsfaithful, we did not support him EVERY STEP OF THE WAY. Please tell me how we supported him breaking the cease-fire agreements from the Gulf War for one.
    We supported him up to, and including, the war on Kuwait. Then we changed out tune, I'm not disputing that.

    We created Saddam. If not for the US's actions he never would have risen to power, never would have had chemical weapons, and wouldn't have had backing for his war with Iran. And he might not have invaded Kuwait since Jim Baker gave him the go ahead.

    We held his hand every step of the way through all of the atrocities people like to point to.

    America needs to become a lot more isolationist, with exceptions only being made for extreme cases.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
    --Oscar Wilde

  13. #72
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    It's America's fault Saddam murdered millions, its America's fault Saddam invaded Iran, its America's fault Saddam invaded Kuwait, its America's fault he used WMDs on the Kurds and Iranians...sounds like some good al-qeada propoganda. I guess some just believe what they want to believe.

    It's heartening to see that even "Old Europe" has applauded the election turnout. But the stalwart naysayers that do exist will continue to throw cold water on even the most optimistic events. One must wonder is these same naysayers go to a wedding and rather than congratulate the bride and groom would tell them of all the trouble ahead...there will be bitter fights, health problems, financial difficulties, maybe divorce....

    Again, I don't believe I heard anyone say that there were no difficulties ahead. But it was most definately a very good day.

  14. #73
    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix
    It's America's fault Saddam murdered millions, its America's fault Saddam invaded Iran, its America's fault Saddam invaded Kuwait, its America's fault he used WMDs on the Kurds and Iranians...sounds like some good al-qeada propoganda. I guess some just believe what they want to believe.
    Do you really think America did not have a hand in any of this? Was it all America's fault? No. Would it have been possible without us? Probaly not.

    And I love how conservatives are so fast to point out all the innocent people Saddam killed (especially since that whole WMD thing fell through) yet they dont care about the millions of people all through Africa, who are in the same, if not worse situation. Wonder why we are not over in Africa liberating people from the genocide and cruel dictators. Much oil in Africa?

  15. #74
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by kbrake
    And I love how conservatives are so fast to point out all the innocent people Saddam killed (especially since that whole WMD thing fell through) yet they dont care about the millions of people all through Africa, who are in the same, if not worse situation. Wonder why we are not over in Africa liberating people from the genocide and cruel dictators. Much oil in Africa?
    I'm a conservative but you're not speaking for me. I think genocide is again underway in Danfur yet the UN (the organization created to stand up to this kind of thing) does nothing. It has become useless. The US could do something about it but I think that many would see it as US agression. Don't you?

  16. #75
    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: Beautiful Day in Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix
    I'm a conservative but you're not speaking for me. I think genocide is again underway in Danfur yet the UN (the organization created to stand up to this kind of thing) does nothing. It has become useless. The US could do something about it but I think that many would see it as US agression. Don't you?

    I think your probaly right but thats only because of what we have done in Iraq. I think if we didnt have our national budget and then some tied up in Iraq we would be helping in the Sudan, but thats not all I am talking about. Africa as a whole is a mess with these sorts of things and we do nothing.

    As a side note someone asked earlier in this thread who everyone thought would win the Iraq election. Are you serious? Whoever the United States runs out there will win of course. If Allawi doesnt win I will be more then shocked. I am in no way saying we have fixed the election I am just saying our guy will win easily.


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