Beautiful Day in Iraq

[M2]

It's America's fault Saddam murdered millions, its America's fault Saddam invaded Iran, its America's fault Saddam invaded Kuwait, its America's fault he used WMDs on the Kurds and Iranians

In order, no (Saddam was a self-starter on the murderous dictator front), yes (the Reagan administration encouraged the Iranian invasion and supplied it in the hopes a military kleptocracy would overthrow a fanatic theocracy), not precisely our fault (though it might have been smart to say no when he announced he intended to invade Kuwait), no (but we didn't care and weren't the least bit offended when he did).

[Phoenix]

I think your probaly right but thats only because of what we have done in Iraq. I think if we didnt have our national budget and then some tied up in Iraq we would be helping in the Sudan, but thats not all I am talking about. Africa as a whole is a mess with these sorts of things and we do nothing.

As a side note someone asked earlier in this thread who everyone thought would win the Iraq election. Are you serious? Whoever the United States runs out there will win of course. If Allawi doesnt win I will be more then shocked. I am in no way saying we have fixed the election I am just saying our guy will win easily.

Where was the UN during the Rwanda genocide? Why has it no teeth? Don't you think it is the organization to dive into these kind of conflicts? I have no doubt that again innocent people are being killed. If the US goes in as peacekeepers it would quickly be spun as a continued war against Islam. Why can't France do something? They are capable. Anyway, that getting off subject...

The people are voting for an assembly in Iraq that will draft a constitution. It is expected the Shia will win which has close ethnic ties with Iran. So actually it might not be the puppet gov't you think.

[kbrake]

First I cant say that I am that big a fan of the UN myself. All I am saying is that Bush started with his WMD arguement and I think (purely opinion) that he knew it was a weak case and there was a good chance there would be nothing there. So he decided to call it Operation Iraqi Freedom no that just makes us feel so warm and fuzzy on the inside. And since we got over there and came up empty on the WMD's it has been nothing but, well look at how many people we freed! I'm just saying you want to help people go somewhere that needs it more.

[SandyD]

Americans should be proud to see Iraqi people dancing. Americans should be proud to see Iraqi people crying after getting to finally vote. There is plenty of gloom-and-doom to go around in this world. It is okay to be happy and be proud as an Americna to see Iraqi people vote.

Far from over... but I won't go on the record as comparing the 2-day old election to Vietnam. As some won't "question" those who make those bold comments. Try rationalizing that...

The only pride that matters here is the pride of the Iraqi people. This is about the Iraq, and it has to be that way. The role of the US should really be downplayed here.

Why do we have to be "happy and proud as an American" to see the Iraqi people vote? Why can't we just be "happy" to see the Iraqi people vote?

Edit: BTW, not saying you shouldn't "be proud to be an American." Just wondering why we have to inject that "American pride" into everything.

[M2]

My thoughts exactly Sandy.

[KittyDuran]

Americans should be proud to see Iraqi people dancing. Americans should be proud to see Iraqi people crying after getting to finally vote. There is plenty of gloom-and-doom to go around in this world. It is okay to be happy and be proud as an Americna to see Iraqi people vote.

Coming from an American in Oakwood, Ohio... means nothing. As a matter of fact it sounds downright arrogant.

Just wondering why we have to inject that "American pride" into everything.

Justification?

[RedFanAlways1966]

Coming from an American in Oakwood, Ohio... means nothing. As a matter of fact it sounds downright arrogant.

Thanks for the contribution. Feel better, Kitty? I hope so! Have a great Groundhog Day, REDS fan. :MandJ:

[RedsBaron]

Americans have felt shame at the abuses of Iraqi POWs. IMO Americans may properly feel pride with regard to Iraqis being given the opportunity to vote in a free election. Neither event would have occurred without the United States.
I'm not arguing in this post that the decision to invade Iraq was the correct one, nor am I intending to ignore the courage shown by Iraqis in going to the polls despite the real risk of death. I am saying that Americans and Britons and citizens of other nations whose troops deposed Saddam Hussein can properly take pride in the opportunity given to Iraqis to have a free country.

[Redsfaithful]

I am saying that Americans and Britons and citizens of other nations whose troops deposed Saddam Hussein can properly take pride in the opportunity given to Iraqis to have a free country.

I agree, I just think we should probably wait until Iraqis actually have that opportunity.

[RedsBaron]

I agree, I just think we should probably wait until Iraqis actually have that opportunity.

Oh the Iraqis are being given that opportunity. What will be at issue is the same issue reportedly posed by Benjamin Franklin when asked at the conclusion of the Constitutional Covention what kind of government was being given to the people: "A republic, if you can keep it." Ultimately, whether or not the Iraqi people have a democratic government will depend upon whether or not they can keep it, without reliance upon American military forces.

[Redsfaithful]

This is just my opinion but the Iraqi people will never have the opportunity to have a free government unless their oil is nationalized. And I don't see the US allowing that to happen.

Some would argue that we wouldn't have a problem with Iran if it weren't for the fact that their oil reserves are nationalized.

[Ravenlord]

It's America's fault Saddam murdered millions, its America's fault Saddam invaded Iran, its America's fault Saddam invaded Kuwait, its America's fault he used WMDs on the Kurds and Iranians...sounds like some good al-qeada propoganda. I guess some just believe what they want to believe.

yep, and you're very much doing it in this pargraph. to answer specifically:

no
yes and no
probably
America's fault he had them
no

[Phoenix]

Americans absolutely should feel pride watching the Iraqis celebrating the elections. Without American lives, courage, and a whole lot of dollars it would NOT have happened.

[Ravenlord]

I'm a conservative but you're not speaking for me. I think genocide is again underway in Danfur yet the UN (the organization created to stand up to this kind of thing) does nothing. It has become useless. The US could do something about it but I think that many would see it as US agression. Don't you?

good reason to just start disbanding the bloody thing. i mean, c'mon...Libya is in charge of human rights.

[M2]

Phoenix, I wouldn't care how the world viewed it if we went in the Sudan. I'd whack the country's military hard and send our special forces on a Janjaweed hunt with no catch limit.

Unfortunately we don't have the resources to do it because Iraq has gobbled them up. Going into Darfur and beating back the bad guys is exactly the sort thing that fits in with the global fight for liberty Bush paid lip service to in his inaugural address.

I'm a hawk by nature and my main complaint with Bush is that he's fighting over a sand spit when there's a world to win. As it stands, I don't see how we can blame anyone else for gross negligence in Darfur when we're practicing it ourselves.