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Thread: Norwood battle made national news.

  1. #16
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    I can understand being attached to the place that you live, although I'd have gladly sold any home I've lived in at any time, for a fair price. But when the other 99 homeowners in your subdivision take the money and run, I don't see how being the lone holdout is anything but foolhardy.
    /r/reds

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  3. #17
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    As a concept, I'm not keen on government, be it local, state, or federal, being able to tell me where I can and cannot live.

    If I've bought a home and established it as my residence, government better have a compelling reason to order me to sell off and move. The tricky part is defining "compelling". Expansion of schools, OK. Bigger, newer roads, well, I suppose. Build a shopping center? You need to convince me why it is in my best interest.

    Generally speaking, the almighty dollar trumps all. Out where I live, local government sucks up to big buck developers. If some developer comes to city or township council with a.) big $$$ backing, and b.) a grand scheme for development, local gov't see the $$$ and gets behind it 1000%. And then they work the system (rezoning, etc.) to accomodate the wants of the developer. Sometimes citizens kick back (WalMart, etc.).

    And it sounds like Norwood is the same. The city is in dire financial straits. They are sucking up to developers. The face of a neighborhood around Rookwood has changed over time. Like Z said, it cries out commercial. 66 out of the 71 land owners have agreed to be bought out.

    If it were me, I'd see that times are a changin' and get myself a lawyer to squeeze every dime out of the deal I possibly could. But in the end, I'd sell.

    But if someone wants to stay and endure the commercial environment, I think they ought to be able to stay. I think it stinks that a city can abuse a legal loophole to force someone to move out.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  4. #18
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    Quote Originally Posted by zombie-a-go-go
    Corporate interests? Surely they benefit, but the city and all its denizens benefit as well. This isn't a case of big government trying to line their gold-plated pockets by screwing over the true-blue American citizen, but rather a decaying city falling apart at the seams because its tax income hasn't kept up with inflation (Norwood is a pretty low-rent city) and it can't afford to effectively provide its peoples with basic government services unless something is done to bring in more income.

    You can feel free to make sweeping statements about right and wrong, but unless you live in Norwood (and to reiterate, I do), respectfully, you can't understand how important this is to keep the city itself from buckling under.

    Maybe if the Gambles and their ilk didn't regularly shoot down every proposed tax increase Norwood tries to pass, they wouldn't be in this predicament. But you reap what you sow.
    I'm sympathetic on the taxation point. I find I-got-mine taxation opponents repugnant (as one such person said to me once "I don't have kids in school anymore, why should I have to pay for it?").

    But just because folks have nickeled and dimed the city or because you're caught in a deterioration cycle doesn't make it right to take people's homes. Right is right even when it's inconvenient.

    They used this argument in Boston back in the 1950s and 1960s and knocked down what would now be some of the choicest property and one of the best neighborhoods in the city.

    I understand how difficult it is to be caught in the situation you describe in Norwood. I've seen other cities in that bind and it's not pretty. I've also seen other cities that pulled themselves out of that bind when drastic measures like this land-taking came to nothing. Downtown's can be revitalized, existing available land and commerical zoning can be leveraged.

    I'm right there with you as far as the end's it sounds like you're trying to achieve, but this isn't the right means to get there.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  5. #19
    Member TeamCasey's Avatar
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    “Eminent domain's use for private advantage is so outrageous because it strikes at the root of American freedom.” “We are not particularly free if our life’s labors can be taken on the whim of a government official, acting on behalf of a private party.” Steven Greenhut

  6. #20
    Member 15fan's Avatar
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    $280,000 for a house that they bought 35 years ago?

    Honey, grab your things. We're moving.

  7. #21
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    By M2: "But just because folks have nickeled and dimed the city or because you're caught in a deterioration cycle doesn't make it right to take people's homes."

    Yes. It does.

    Rem

  8. #22
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    Forty weeks a year I go out and invite people to come to Newport Beach. Almost every weekend someone walks up and says, 'They ruined it. When I moved there in (insert year) it was perfect. They should have never changed anything after that."

    Basically what they are saying is that once they were there no one else should be able to live there. Classic NIMBY Syndrome.

    People, THINGS CHANGE! It's a fact of life and if you aren't prepared to deal with it them be prepared to get run over!

    The Gambles are lucky I'm not the Judge 'cause I'd be telling them to pay the city $285,000 in damages for impeading progress and to have a moving van at the door at 9:00 AM tomorrow.

    Rem

  9. #23
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    People, THINGS CHANGE! It's a fact of life and if you aren't prepared to deal with it them be prepared to get run over!
    Not everyone operates under the impression that all change is good, and is not always fair, even if a dollar sign is attached to it.

  10. #24
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    A similar battle was fought over a plan to raze houses in New Rochelle, NY for an Ikea.
    Did Rob and Laura Petry join in the fight

    I agree M2 and Team Casey, it's absurd that the government can force you off your property for the benefit of some coorporation.

    Logically, it might make sense to convert that area in Norwood to a mall, but I don't want the government to have the power to force me to sell my house for some coorporate benefit.

    Here's an idea.. Let everyone but that couple sell, build the mall around them.
    It's not like the couple owns the Ponderosa. If the couple still wants to keep their home, even if it is surrounded by mall parking lots, that should be their decision..

  11. #25
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Not everyone operates under the impression that all change is good, and is not always fair, even if a dollar sign is attached to it.
    I didn't say all change was good nor did I say it was fair. But it does happen and if you like to live your life with your head in the sand then don't complain about the consequences.

    Rem

  12. #26
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    Supreme Court hears Kelo vs. New London this month. Should be interesting. The timing isn't good for Kelo and her neighbors though.

  13. #27
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Here's an idea.. Let everyone but that couple sell, build the mall around them.
    It's not like the couple owns the Ponderosa. If the couple still wants to keep their home, even if it is surrounded by mall parking lots, that should be their decision..
    That would be... excellent.
    "It's easier to give up. I'm not a very vocal player. I lead by example. I take the attitude that I've got to go out and do it. Because of who I am, I've got to give everything I've got to come back."
    -Ken Griffey Jr.

  14. #28
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog
    Forty weeks a year I go out and invite people to come to Newport Beach. Almost every weekend someone walks up and says, 'They ruined it. When I moved there in (insert year) it was perfect. They should have never changed anything after that."

    Basically what they are saying is that once they were there no one else should be able to live there. Classic NIMBY Syndrome.

    People, THINGS CHANGE! It's a fact of life and if you aren't prepared to deal with it them be prepared to get run over!

    The Gambles are lucky I'm not the Judge 'cause I'd be telling them to pay the city $285,000 in damages for impeading progress and to have a moving van at the door at 9:00 AM tomorrow.

    Rem
    I'm no NIMBY fan, but this isn't a case of NIMBY. NIMBY is when you're trying to stop someone else from doing something to which you're only tangentially connected. If this was a case of people with an aesthetic complaint about something happening across the street, I'd probably agree with you.

    Yet this family owns that property. Last I looked we lived in a country based on the predominance of individual rights. Government should have boundaries and the East India Company will just have to find some other way to make its money.

    REDREAD, the build around them idea is a good one. Though it probably makes the zoning overlay they're shooting for impossible. They might have to scale down the commercial reach of the project as a result and add residential units.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  15. #29
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog
    I didn't say all change was good nor did I say it was fair. But it does happen and if you like to live your life with your head in the sand then don't complain about the consequences.
    Now wait a second. If it isn't all good then why should have to drink from that firehose without complaint?

    Plus this isn't a question of whether change is a good idea. It's a question of whether you can force someone out of their home in order to forcibly create that change.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  16. #30
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Norwood battle made national news.

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Here's an idea.. Let everyone but that couple sell, build the mall around them.
    It's not like the couple owns the Ponderosa. If the couple still wants to keep their home, even if it is surrounded by mall parking lots, that should be their decision..

    Pay attention to the open sky


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