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Thread: Congrats to the NFL...

  1. #31
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Well, we need to include Teddy Brushci and Willie McGinnest in the list of greatest linebackers of all-time, Troy Brown in the list of best WRs of all-time, the Pats offensive line as the best of all-time and anyone else who's been there for the three Super Bowl teams. This Patriots team is a great team, the best since the Cowboys of the 90s. This defense is one of the hardest to score on I've ever seen. The offense is like the starting pitching of the Big Red Machine, do just enough to not blow it and let the great 8 do the rest. I've watched football my entire life and I know when I'm wathing a great team and I know when I'm watching great QB play. John Elway - now THAT was great QB play.

    Tom Brady is Trent Dilfer of the Ravens a few years back (better than Dilfer, but in a smiliar situation), but with the team sticking together a little longer. If Trent Dilfer can win Super Bowls, then the idea that if a QB wins Super Bowls makes them a great QB has to be thrown out the window.

    I know great QB play when I see it. Peyton Manning this year was GREAT QB play. Tom Brady is very good, but not in the same class as the great ones just because he plays on a great team.
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  3. #32
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Nice piece by Jayson Stark comparing the competitive balance between the two sports.

    By Jayson Stark
    ESPN.com
    You may have heard that there's some kind of big football game coming up. Well, here at Useless Info Central, we try to stay relevant. So we'll, uh, kick off this column with some football-related baseball notes:

    Here's something to ponder: Football is the sport that's always praised for its spectacular competitive balance. But as loyal reader David Hallstrom reports, five different baseball teams have won the World Series over the last five years. Think that happens all the time in football? Think again.

    In the NFL's 39-year Super Bowl era, there has been exactly one five-year period in which five different teams won a title -- 1984-88. And even if you include the pre-Supe era, that's the only five-year span in which the NFL can make that claim over its last 57 seasons.

    Then there's this year's Super Bowl matchup -- which didn't exactly come out of nowhere. It matches one team going for its third title in four years (the Patriots) versus another team (the Eagles) that has made it to four straight conference finals.

    In other words, for a sport that's supposed to be so wide open, there sure has been a lot of regularity to the NFL's postseason final four.

    In fact, it turns out the NFL's final four teams actually have been more predictable over the last four years than baseball's final four. In baseball, 12 of the 30 franchises have made it to a League Championship Series over the past four seasons. In football, only 10 have been to a conference final.

    Or let's take this back even more years. Over the last eight baseball postseasons, 16 of the 30 MLB franchises have been to at least one LCS (53.3 percent). That's virtually exactly the same percentage as the NFL (17 of 32, 53.1 percent). So it may be true that there's more parity in football. But it isn't true that it's tougher to predict which teams will still be standing at the end.
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  4. #33
    Let's ride BRM's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Great post MWM. I agree with you completely.

  5. #34
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Disagree re: Brady, MWM. I see a lot of Pats up here in New England, and the guy is a great, great decision maker. Very accurate arm. Uncanny on third down. Tough (played with multiple injuries -- and needed surgery later -- in winning the SB in 2003). And the greatest post-season QB perhaps ever.

    The comparison to Trent Dilfer is laughable. Dilfer's team won on defense. Brady's teams just win, whether they need 20 points or 35. The correct comparison, in my opinion, is Joe Montana. And I think he'll end up eclipsing Montana.

    I'm a Bengals fan. But I've seen enough of Brady over the last several years to gain an appreciation for what he means to that team. I doubt you've seen him enough.
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  6. #35
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    I know great QB play when I see it. Peyton Manning this year was GREAT QB play. Tom Brady is very good, but not in the same class as the great ones just because he plays on a great team.
    It makes for good arguing, doesn't it? Still, football is so much more of a true team sport than the others. Baseball is more individualistic in nature, basketball has a lot fewer players and one guy can pretty much take over a game... in football, every play is about teamwork, and one guy not doing his job can ruin it. And don't forget coaching. From playcalling to "systems," the impact of coaching on a team's success is so much greater in the NFL. (In MLB and the NBA, you get the idea that if the managers/coaches didn't show up for a day, the game would go on and the fans might not notice much difference.)

    While I agree that championships are what it's all about, there's only a certain extent -- a limited extent -- that any one football player can be credited or debited for them.

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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Please don't compare Brady with Trent Dilfer. Please don't, its embarassing.
    Trent Dilfer did not win superbowls, he won one, against a very average New York Giant team with Kerry Collins at quarterback. Manning? How many points did Manning put up against New England when it counted? 3? Heck, even McNabb, as bad as he was, threw 2 TD passes yesterday.

    I repeat:

    Belichick regular season w/o Brady: 36-46 .439
    Belichick regular season with Brady : 48-14 .774

    Belichick post season w/o Brady : 1-1 .500 No rings.
    Belichick post season with Brady: 9-0 1.000 3 rings.

    all you Brady bashers, please explain.

  8. #37
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    The comparison to Trent Dilfer is laughable. Dilfer's team won on defense. Brady's teams just win, whether they need 20 points or 35. The correct comparison, in my opinion, is Joe Montana. And I think he'll end up eclipsing Montana.
    Right. And I'm sure you already hold Brady in higher esteem than Bradshaw, Staubach, Young, Favre, Manning, Starr, Unitas, Elway, etc. etc.

    Brady's not even the best QB among his peers much less deserving of sharing a post with the names in the paragraph above.

    The best Brady comp you're going to get at this point is Troy Aikman. That's not bad company at all and certainly not any sort of "bashing" of the guy. Anything more is pure hyperbole.
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  9. #38
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Right. And I'm sure you already hold Brady in higher esteem than Bradshaw, Staubach, Young, Favre, Manning, Starr, Unitas, Elway, etc. etc.
    Well of course not, Brady's only 27 years old. But Starr is an interesting comparison. As with Brady, some people criticized Starr saying anybody could quarterback the great Packer teams. As a lifelong Packer fan who goes back to before Lombardi, I can tell you thats simply not true, Starr was special and a key to that team. And there isn't one player on those teams who wouldn't tell you different.

    Right now there's only one active quarterback who's a sure Hall of Famer and thats Brett. But I'm willing to bet Brady gets in too, and at this rate God knows how many rings he'll have before he hangs it up. he can play for my team anyday.

  10. #39
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman
    Well of course not, Brady's only 27 years old. But Starr is an interesting comparison. As with Brady, some people criticized Starr saying anybody could quarterback the great Packer teams. As a lifelong Packer fan who goes back to before Lombardi, I can tell you thats simply not true, Starr was special and a key to that team. And there isn't one player on those teams who wouldn't tell you different.

    Right now there's only one active quarterback who's a sure Hall of Famer and thats Brett. But I'm willing to bet Brady gets in too, and at this rate God knows how many rings he'll have before he hangs it up. he can play for my team anyday.
    Peyton Manning isn't a sure Hall of Famer?

    Have I been watching a different sport or something? I swear that I've been watching NFL football. Even have the DirecTV bills to prove it.

    Again, I'm not bashing Brady. I appreciate him for what he is- reliable and system-oriented. But that being said, he's outclassed by several of his contemporaries and will most likely continue to be outclassed by several of his contemporaries for years to come. It's good that he's collecting rings because without those he'd have very little chance of making it to Canton without paying for a ticket.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  11. #40
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by macro
    This is the only thing from your post that I disagree with. I know this is the baseball forum, but I can't resist pointing out that NE is losing their offensive coordinator and their defensive coordinator from their three championship teams, and neither will be easily replaced.

    They'll remain a good team for a while, but the dynasty is over. They'll fall back to the pack in '05. Mark it down.
    As long as they still have Belichick, they'll be just fine.

  12. #41
    15 game winner Danny Serafini's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman
    Belichick regular season w/o Brady: 36-46 .439
    Belichick regular season with Brady : 48-14 .774

    Belichick post season w/o Brady : 1-1 .500 No rings.
    Belichick post season with Brady: 9-0 1.000 3 rings.

    all you Brady bashers, please explain.
    Team Belichick had to work with in Cleveland vs. team Belichick had to work with in New England. You think Brady vs. Dilfer a an unfair comparison, look at the rosters Belichick had with each team and tell me how fair a comparison that is. Not QBs, full rosters. Plus it's fair to say Belichick improved with experience. The Patriots team won, Brady has been along for the ride.

  13. #42
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    Peyton Manning isn't a sure Hall of Famer?
    Until he can win a playoff game outside of his friendly little dome, Peyton Manning cannot be considered a great quarterback. It doesn't make any difference how many touchdown passes you throw against the Bengals in your dome in October, its what you do on the road in January and February, and so far Peyton comes up short. When he does the job in a big game on the road, then I'll call him great.

  14. #43
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman
    Until he can win a playoff game outside of his friendly little dome, Peyton Manning cannot be considered a great quarterback. It doesn't make any difference how many touchdown passes you throw against the Bengals in your dome in October, its what you do on the road in January and February, and so far Peyton comes up short. When he does the job in a big game on the road, then I'll call him great.
    That's insane.

  15. #44
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman
    Until he can win a playoff game outside of his friendly little dome, Peyton Manning cannot be considered a great quarterback. It doesn't make any difference how many touchdown passes you throw against the Bengals in your dome in October, its what you do on the road in January and February, and so far Peyton comes up short. When he does the job in a big game on the road, then I'll call him great.
    Yeah. Peyton Manning isn't a "great" QB but Tom Brady is. That's it. I feared that's where this conversation was going.

    That's like saying Troy Aikman was a far better QB than Dan Marino. Hogwash.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
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  16. #45
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman
    Until he can win a playoff game outside of his friendly little dome, Peyton Manning cannot be considered a great quarterback. It doesn't make any difference how many touchdown passes you throw against the Bengals in your dome in October, its what you do on the road in January and February, and so far Peyton comes up short. When he does the job in a big game on the road, then I'll call him great.

    And while you are at it, tell Ted Williams he's been banned from Cooperstown.
    What if this wasn't a rhetorical question?

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