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Thread: Congrats to the NFL...

  1. #76
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Puffy, I certainly don't think it's half. But I think there are several. I think the type of QB is just as important as quality in the Pats situation. QBs that might not be great playmakers, but who don't do a lot of bonehead mistakes would do well for the Pats and I think there's a good chance they'd have won just as much. But it's nothing more than specualtion.

    What Brady does well is not make a lot of bonehead plays that allow the other team to score more points. The Pats are a team that jus doesn't give up points (they led the NFL this year by giving up a a paltry 14.9 PPG). Brady's job is to play a conservative offense and not do anything tha will lead to quick points for the other team. I think he does it well, but no matter much I'm told otherwise, I just can't ignore the time he gets to pass. I thought Pittsburgh would be a good test because they had such a good pass rush all season. But I paid very close attention to that part of the Pat-Steelers game and even the Steelers got very little pressure on Brady. He had mass amounts of time to throw the ball most of the game. He never leaves the pocket and usually throws to his third or fourth receiver. That could be because he has the time and he's going to use it. I don't know. I think it would interesting to see him play in a situation that requires him to move around a little and make quicker decisions. I'm not suggesting he couldn't do it, but I'm not convined he could. Honestly, I just don't think we know how good he is by himself yet. He's been in such a favorable environment that it's too hard to tell.

    But, it would probably come as no surprise to anyone that I don't put a lot of credence in the "he does it when he needs to" argument. Great QBs are great almost all the time. John Elway didn't just wake up one day late in his career and discover how to "win the super bowl."
    Last edited by MWM; 02-08-2005 at 02:22 PM.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

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  3. #77
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    David Klingler could QB that team and they'd still win.
    that's a bunch of hooey mwm. and you know it.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  4. #78
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    one thing i can tell you is that they pats wouldn't have won 3 superbowls with bledsoe as their QB.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  5. #79
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro
    that's a bunch of hooey mwm. and you know it.
    OK. Maybe Klingler is an exaggeration, but from what I'm watching there are a lot of QBs who could have similar success in the situation he's in. I've watched a lot of the Patriots games and that's what I believe based strictly on watching the QB play. I see a guy who's never rushed to make a decision and sits back and waits for a receiver to get open. He does what he needs to do and should be congratulated for it, but I don't think he's anywhere near the Elway's and Marino's and Montana's of the world because of his team's success.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  6. #80
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    OK. Maybe Klingler is an exaggeration, but from what I'm watching there are a lot of QBs who could have similar success in the situation he's in. I've watched a lot of the Patriots games and that's what I believe based strictly on watching the QB play. I see a guy who's never rushed to make a decision and sits back and waits for a receiver to get open. He does what he needs to do and should be congratulated for it, but I don't think he's anywhere near the Elway's and Marino's and Montana's of the world because of his team's success.
    then why couldn't bledsoe do it?
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  7. #81
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro
    one thing i can tell you is that they pats wouldn't have won 3 superbowls with bledsoe as their QB.
    Maybe, but I don't think it's that black and white. I was never a big believer in Bledsoe even in his heyday. He makes too many stupid mistakes. But he was the starting QB when they won a very important playoff game, so who knows what they would have done if he would have continued as QB.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  8. #82
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro
    then why couldn't bledsoe do it?
    How many games did Bledsoe play under belicheck in New England?
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  9. #83
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    He started 18 games for Belicheck and went 5 and 13. He mopped up in a couple more, including the playoff victory Steel alluded to earlier.

    It should be noted however that Belicheck took over a .500 team and blew it up to a great extent and alot of that caused the 5-11 that Bledsoe went through.

    By the same measure the following year the Pats started out 0-2 with Bledsoe as the starting QB and then went 14-3 including a SB win when Brady took over.
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
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  10. #84
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    But, it would probably come as no surprise to anyone that I don't put a lot of credence in the "he does it when he needs to" argument. Great QBs are great almost all the time. John Elway didn't just wake up one day late in his career and discover how to "win the super bowl."
    But thats the point, MWM, Brady does it every week. He is 57-16 as the QB, thats not doing it when he needs to its doing it week in and week out.

    Yes, Brady gets lots of time to throw, but he is great at check downs, he is great at looking off the primary receiver and he is great at hitting his third or fourth option. He is also great at reading blitzes and helping set up protection schemes at the line. He is one of the best at hot reads as well. Granted, that comes with coaching, but it also comes with hard work, and nobody outworks Tom Brady - I would think people would take that into consideration and give Brady more respect, but for all the talk about how we hate how players are flamboyant and how they don't respect the game, that takes a back seat here, for some reason (and maybe its because Brady is a media darling right now, so its understandable).
    "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum."
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    "It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man"
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    That Ron Jaworski's job is to create buzz and hype?

    And that he doesn't remember who Terry Bradshaw, Joe Montana, John Elway, or Brett Favre are.

    I think Jaworski knows full well who Brett Favre is: Jaworski held the record for most consecutive games played at quarterback until Brett broke it.

  12. #86
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman
    Well, as a Packerfan who watched Aikman best Brett several times in the playoffs during the 90's I obviously have a high opinion of Aikman. But iManning is not Marino. Marino got to the superbowl and won playoff games on the road, Manning hasn't.
    Indy beat Kansas City on the road in the playoffs last year. Try again.

  13. #87
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg
    Indy beat Kansas City on the road in the playoffs last year. Try again.
    I think we've been down that road before. For all you Manning fans, beating the vaunted KC defense is really something to brag about. Again, what happened the following week?

    But Manning met my criteria so I will call him a"great" quaterback, if that makes you happy. But I've made a nice profit over the last few years going against the Colts in playoff games on the road, and I will contiue to do so.
    And unfortunatly Colt fans, unless you get homefield advantage throughout the playoffs and the Superbowl is played in a dome, you will never see a ring.

  14. #88
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy
    He is 57-16 as the QB
    See, that's where you and I will never agree. "BRADY" is not 57-16. The Patriots are 57-16 when he's started. I don't buy the QB win-loss thing. It just makes no sense to me to "credit" a QB with a win. Afterall, he was the QB in 2002 and they didn't even make the playoffs. How is that possible? What happened to Bret Favre after Holmgren left? He's not been the same QB since, although he's still very good. There are a select few QBs who make teams competitive almost single handedly. I think Dan Marino is a perfect example of this. John Elway is probably the best example of this (and I'm not a big fan of Elway). These guys carried their teams and it was obvious by watching them play that they were something special. The rest of the QBs are successful only when the situation is right. My opinion is that Brady is one of those guys. I think we'll eventually see for sure, though. They can't hold this team together forever and Brady will have to perform under less than ideal circumstances. If he continues to do so then I'll gladly admit I was way off and will give him the recognition he warrants.

    Yes, Brady gets lots of time to throw, but he is great at check downs, he is great at looking off the primary receiver and he is great at hitting his third or fourth option.
    I agree. Brady is very good at that. My point is that this is a luxury and not many QBs have the same kind of time to throw that he does.

    but for all the talk about how we hate how players are flamboyant and how they don't respect the game, that takes a back seat here, for some reason (and maybe its because Brady is a media darling right now, so its understandable).
    I have no problem with Tom Brady. I think he handles himself well and is a great example of a classy player. But you hit on why it irritates me a little. To me Tom Brady is the embodiment of the over-hyped athlete and the ridiculously bad coverage we get from national sports media outlets these days (i.e. "best big game QB I've ever seen). I've got a long and distinguished track record of being incredibly annoyed by over-hyped athletes. It's one of my biggest pet-peeves on earth and it drives me up a wall. I would probably like Derek Jeter more if I didn't have to hear about what a great "clutch" player he is all the time and if he didn't ALL the credit for the Yankees WS wins. It'w not that I dislike Jeter, but he could be the most over-rated player in the history of baseball. Doesn't mean he's not very good, but the hyperbole attached to him has just made me not a big a fan of the guy. Same for Carlos Beltan. I love the guy's game, but there's just no way anyone is as good as he's made out to be in the media. I think a good comparison for how I feel about Brady is Jason White at Oklahoma. I watched a lot of Oklahoma and it was another situation where I think any good QB could have had success playing in that situation. We saw what happened when he went up against a team that put a lot of pressure on him and forced him to make plays he otherwise wasn't forced to make. The list goes on and on (Andruw Jones).

    Me living in Michigan doesn't help either. Since being here, I've grown really fond of this place. I've shed every bit of my Michigan hate. It took a while and I wouldn't say I'm a full-fledged fan of their football team (although I am a big fan of the basketball program), I actually have learned to root for them, and I'm incredibly excited for this year's team that has a legit shot at a National Championship. But every time I turn the radio on, they're mentiong Brady in the same breath as the best handful of QBs all-time. They actually did a poll one night asking people to call in and say whether or not they'd want om Brady or Joe Montana as their starting QB in the playoffs. For the record, I also think Montana was a little over-rated. He was also the benefator of a coaching genuis and a great team, although I could watch him and tell he was great. But I've always thought Elway and Marino were both better. Anyhow, another night I got in the car and they were having another poll (before the playoffs) asking folks if they were the GM of an NFL team and could choose between Brady and Peyton Manning, who would you choose? Take a guess who won BOTH polls? If that's not gross exaggeration, then I don't know what is.

    I'm not being critical of Brady. It has nothing to do with him and everything to do with the overwhelming hype surrounding the guy. I just think that if someone is as great as he's made out to be, a guy like me ought to be able to see that by watching him. Just once I'd like to see him avoid tacklers and have to scramble and pull a play out of his rear like Elway and Favre have had to in their career. It's not his fault that he doesn't have to do that, but don't tell me he's in their class.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  15. #89
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    But every time I turn the radio on, they're mentiong Brady in the same breath as the best handful of QBs all-time.
    Mainly beacuse the UM program was never a QB factory... ever.. before Brady it was Rick Leach, Bob Griese's kid and a guy named Elvis.

  16. #90
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Congrats to the NFL...

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Mainly beacuse the UM program was never a QB factory... ever.. before Brady it was Rick Leach, Bob Griese's kid and a guy named Elvis.
    Chad Henne is going to be a good one.....a REAL good one, IMO. I'm actually really excited for this year's football team. They have a GREAT home schedule and I've got two season tickets.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David


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