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Thread: Anti Milton

  1. #31
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Browning is a a good comparison for Milton
    WHAT???

    Browning won 20 games with a 3.55ERA as a rookie in '85 and had an ERA of 3.81 or under in 5 of his first 6 seasons.

    I must be reading the wrong resume for Milton.

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  3. #32
    Administrator Boss-Hog's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Milton

    Jimmy Haynes (circa 2002) is proof enough that a pitcher should NEVER be judged based on the amount of wins he racked up in a given season while ignoring all the other stats that tell you he's a bad pitcher.

    RLA, not to pick on you because I'm wrong as much as anyone, but weren't you the one who was very optimistic about the rotation going into 2003 because we had assembled a 'team of winners'?

  4. #33
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckU
    I'm just pointing out that if it ever should happen, cause it is soooooooooo far-fetched
    It isn't that far-fetched. Pitchers generally will have a career season much better than their norms. Just hope he does it in either 05 or 06 and then maybe he will opt out of 07.

  5. #34
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    Re: Anti Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa
    It isn't that far-fetched.
    I know, that was just message board sarcasm.

  6. #35
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Milton

    However, if he does it in 2005 I would not expect a repeat in 2006. Gully will get him straightened out, turn him into another Pete Schourek he will.

  7. #36
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    Re: Anti Milton

    Its hard to compare Browning and Milton because Browning in 1985 didnt pitch the Bandboxes that we have now. If Browning had pitched in Coors field, citizens park, and had his home games played in GABP who know how many Home runs he would have given up. I would take Browning or a guy like Browning (Milton) every day of the week and twice on sundays because he is going to keep you in games and pitch innings. Regaurdless of what anyone thinks Milton will be fine and win atleast 14 to 16 games every year he is healthy he seems to do it.

  8. #37
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Milton

    I heard Milton did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

  9. #38
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Milton

    Ricardo,

    Compare Browning and Milton vs. their respective league-average ERA, and it's a very close comparison. (Remember, in the 80's when Browning pitched, a 3.50+ ERA was considered mediocre--not bad, but not especially good, either.)

    ERAs across the board have gone up in the offense-happy post-1994-strike era (no pun intended).

  10. #39
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Klu
    Ricardo,

    Compare Browning and Milton vs. their respective league-average ERA, and it's a very close comparison. (Remember, in the 80's when Browning pitched, a 3.50+ ERA was considered mediocre--not bad, but not especially good, either.)

    ERAs across the board have gone up in the offense-happy post-1994-strike era (no pun intended).
    Code:
    ERIC MILTON
    
    AGE <= 30
    
    YEAR TEAM         AGE W   L   PCT   G    GS  CG  SV  GF  IP     H    R    ER   BB   SO    ERA  RSAA
    1998 Twins        22   8  14  .364   32  32   1   0   0  172.1  195  113  108   70  107   5.64  -19 
    1999 Twins        23   7  11  .389   34  34   4   0   0  206.1  190  111  103   63  163   4.49   16 
    2000 Twins        24  13  10  .565   33  33   0   0   0  200    205  123  108   44  160   4.86   10 
    2001 Twins        25  15   7  .682   35  34   2   0   0  220.2  222  109  106   61  157   4.32    5 
    2002 Twins        26  13   9  .591   29  29   2   0   0  171    173   96   92   30  121   4.84   -9 
    2003 Twins        27   1   0 1.000    3   3   0   0   0   17     15    5    5    1    7   2.65    4 
    2004 Phillies     28  14   6  .700   34  34   0   0   0  201    196  110  106   75  161   4.75   -9 
         TOTALS           71  57  .555  200 199   9   0   0 1188.1 1196  667  628  344  876   4.76   -2 
         LG AVERAGE       67  67  .500            9   0     1188.1 1240  664  610  457  844   4.62    0 
    
    YEAR TEAM          HR  H/9   BR/9  SO/9  BB/9  SO/BB SHO WP  IBB HBP BFP   BK  NW  NL
    1998 Twins         25 10.18 13.94  5.59  3.66  1.53   0   1   0   2   772  0   9  13 
    1999 Twins         28  8.29 11.17  7.11  2.75  2.59   2   2   2   3   858  0  10   8 
    2000 Twins         35  9.23 11.52  7.20  1.98  3.64   0   5   0   7   849  0  12  11 
    2001 Twins         35  9.05 11.75  6.40  2.49  2.57   1   2   0   5   944  0  11  11 
    2002 Twins         24  9.11 10.84  6.37  1.58  4.03   1   4   0   3   707  0  10  12 
    2003 Twins          2  7.94  8.47  3.71  0.53  7.00   0   0   0   0    66  0   1   0 
    2004 Phillies      43  8.78 12.18  7.21  3.36  2.15   0   3   6   1   862  0   9  11 
         TOTALS       192  9.06 11.82  6.63  2.61  2.55   4  17   8  21  5058  0  62  66 
         LG AVERAGE   150  9.39 13.21  6.39  3.46  1.85   2  43  31  48  5184  4 
    
    
    
    AGE <= 30
    
    YEAR TEAM         AGE W   L   PCT   G    GS  CG  SV  GF  IP     H    R    ER   BB   SO    ERA  RSAA
    1984 Reds         24   1   0 1.000    3   3   0   0   0   23.1   27    4    4    5   14   1.54    6 
    1985 Reds         25  20   9  .690   38  38   6   0   0  261.1  242  111  103   73  155   3.55    6 
    1986 Reds         26  14  13  .519   39  39   4   0   0  243.1  225  123  103   70  147   3.81    3 
    1987 Reds         27  10  13  .435   32  31   2   0   1  183    201  107  102   61  117   5.02  -16 
    1988 Reds         28  18   5  .783   36  36   5   0   0  250.2  205   98   95   64  124   3.41    6 
    1989 Reds         29  15  12  .556   37  37   9   0   0  249.2  241  109   94   64  118   3.39    8 
    1990 Reds         30  15   9  .625   35  35   2   0   0  227.2  235   98   96   52   99   3.80    0 
         TOTALS           93  61  .604  220 219  28   0   1 1439   1376  650  597  389  774   3.73   13 
         LG AVERAGE       80  80  .500           26   0     1439   1370  658  587  518  925   3.67    0 
    
    YEAR TEAM          HR  H/9   BR/9  SO/9  BB/9  SO/BB SHO WP  IBB HBP BFP   BK  NW  NL
    1984 Reds           0 10.41 12.34  5.40  1.93  2.80   0   1   0   0    95  0   1   0 
    1985 Reds          29  8.33 10.95  5.34  2.51  2.12   4   2   8   3  1083  0  15  14 
    1986 Reds          26  8.32 10.95  5.44  2.59  2.10   2   3   6   1  1016  0  14  13 
    1987 Reds          27  9.89 13.13  5.75  3.00  1.92   0   2   7   5   791  4  10  13 
    1988 Reds          36  7.36  9.91  4.45  2.30  1.94   2   2   3   7  1001  4  12  11 
    1989 Reds          31  8.69 11.10  4.25  2.31  1.84   2   2  10   3  1031  1  14  13 
    1990 Reds          24  9.29 11.54  3.91  2.06  1.90   1   5  13   5   957  1  12  12 
         TOTALS       173  8.61 11.19  4.84  2.43  1.99  11  17  47  24  5974 10  78  76 
         LG AVERAGE   121  8.57 11.98  5.79  3.24  1.79   7  46  66  27  6090 18

    For pitchers who have pitched at least 1000 innings Eric Milton has the 30th best K/9 rate for LH pitchers in the history of baseball, smack between Guidry and Tug McGraw.

  11. #40
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Milton

    RSAA

    Milton -2
    Browning +13

    The problem with Milton is that BPIs have alway said that he is a better pitcher than the ERA.

  12. #41
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    Re: Anti Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by deltachi8
    I refer you to Jimmy Haynes once more as evidence of how much weight the "wins" statistic holds.
    Haynes won 15 games that year because he pitched well.

    He bombed afterwards because of injuries and bad pitching.

    Milton has always won alot of games.

    There's no valid comparison between Milton and Haynes.

    And wade Miller is a huge injury risk. There's no evidence he will pitch much this year.

  13. #42
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Milton

    my summation of the Milton signing

    Did the Reds overpay? Probably so.
    Did the othe FA starters get overpaid? Probably so.
    Will Milton earn his $8M+ salary in 2005? Probably not.
    WIll Milton improve the staff over 2004? Probably so.
    Could the Reds have found a better way to spend it in 05? Probably not.

    The only thing that bothers about the Milton deal is the out years in 06-07. If this doesn't work and attendance drops they could up trading away their young stars(Dunn adn Kearns I believe) because they don't want to pay them. That's what scares me about the Milton contract. I hope he pitches well in 05 and the Reds are competetive and that they can still afford to pay their young guys. I think 5 years from now baseball will be talking about how good Dunn and Kearns have been, I hope they are still Reds so we can get maximum enjoyment from that.

  14. #43
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85
    my summation of the Milton signing

    Did the Reds overpay? Probably so.
    Did the other FA starters get overpaid? Probably so.
    Will Milton earn his $8M+ salary in 2005? Probably not.
    WIll Milton improve the staff over 2004? Probably so.
    Could the Reds have found a better way to spend it in 05? Probably not.
    Pretty well sums up my feelings. Other name FA's weren't going to come here, so might as well roll the dice and see what Milton can do for a couple seasons.

    Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
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  15. #44
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig
    Haynes won 15 games that year because he pitched well.
    No he did not. His 2002 BPIs said he was the same pitcher that lost 17 games the year before with the Brewers. His half run lower ERA and 15 wins was nothing but good fortune. The Jimmy Haynes of 2002 was essentially the same pitcher as the 2001 pitcher., the only difference was a .5 per 9 ininng drop in his BB rate. The fact that the Reds were ignorant of that caused them to offer him an ill advised 2 year deal.

  16. #45
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Anti Milton

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss-Hog
    Jimmy Haynes (circa 2002) is proof enough that a pitcher should NEVER be judged based on the amount of wins he racked up in a given season while ignoring all the other stats that tell you he's a bad pitcher.

    RLA, not to pick on you because I'm wrong as much as anyone, but weren't you the one who was very optimistic about the rotation going into 2003 because we had assembled a 'team of winners'?
    No Boss, I was all fired up because the Reds had assembled a rotation full of 200 innings guys.

    I simply remember many of us on the old board giving some of our Seattle fans grief because they went out and signed a couple of pitchers who had had 5 plus era's and they thought they were going to be really good.

    Well, I think Seattle won their division that year.

    I am also a bit perturbed because around here, no guy the Reds get seems to be good enough. If they aren't Johnson or Clemens they have too high of a WHIP or they walk too many guys or they give up too many HR's.

    I am not saying this group will lead the league in ERA, or innings pitched per start or anything else. I am just saying that in today's game, a 4.5 ERA or even higher, with a potent offense behind it CAN be competitive.....and since I am sssssooooooo tired of sitting here every February already knowing the Reds are gonna stink, I am going to use a 60 plus mill payroll as an excuse to delude myself into thinking they might just be good....maybe even really good.

    If I am nuts, it will be proven soon enough.
    "Is there a problem officers?"


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