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Thread: Grade the offseason.

  1. #46
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    "I know how typical grades work. But baseball isn't a typical situation."

    Okay...

    But instead of stretching credulity, why not try to approach something that resembles a consensus of criteria.

    What if I decided that the only criterion that matters is "dollars spent?"

    I'd be free to do that--give the Reds an "A" and a big ole "gO Rdz!!!" But I'd be stupid for arriving at that conclusion.

    I'm just not sure I understand the logic that D connotes improvement, that's all. It's always meant regression to me (and virtually the universe). Now if your argument is that by not signing Dunn, the Reds have countervailed all other moves this offseason, and so deserve a "D" then fine. But that takes some pretty tortuous logic, seeing that Dunn'll still be suiting up in red and black this season.

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  3. #47
    Moderator Tommyjohn25's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by AvesIce51
    Wow, you guys are some of the most ungrateful fans I've ever seen. This is by far the best off season the Reds have had in over 20 years (please don't say getting Griffey was the best offseason). What did you guys give them last year? Because their off season this year has been about 800% better. I can't even remember what we did last season, Corey Lidle and Todd Jones is all I can think of. Some of you guys need to get off your calculators and baseball prospectus graphs and take a look at the game. We actually have a bench this year (haven't seen that lately) and a bullpen! And for those of you who criticize for overspending...who's money was it, and somebody tell me their budget??? No matter what the budget, we weren't going to get anyone else after our last deal. If Lindner didn't over spend on Milton, we wouldn't have him, and we would just have 8 million dollars more...having that money won't win us games, Milton will. Take a look at what we put on the field, we have 4 all-star caliber OF's, a very solid 3B, good 2B, one of the best hitting 1B in the game, a tough as nails catcher with a great arm, 3 decent starters, which we haven't seen in a while, and a good bullpen... Have you guys noticed our pitching competition is for the 4 and 5 spot (even though I feel it is decided already for Harang and Hudson). Usually our competition is for our 3-5! Jose Acevedo was our #3 last year!

    I give them an A for their off season, best one I've experienced.

    I guess I should be ready for some responses...
    Fantastic Post! I give them an A as well, I also think it's a shame that people like you and I expect to get blasted for being optimistic about the team that everyone on this site is a die hard fan of. I dunno...maybe i just drank too much "kool-aid".
    Benzinger backing and calling! And the 1990 world championship series belongs to the Cincinnati Reds!

  4. #48
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by XRedsfan07
    Of course they will. All the nay sayers will become the guys saying "I told you signing Randa/Milton/Aurilia/etc. would pay off"

    That's how sports goes. You've the eternal optamists, the eternal pesamists, and the fair weather fan.
    From my experience, all the "naysayers" would probably say.. "wow I was wrong" and if they were wrong they'll spend the time to figure out why they were wrong.

    IF.... they are right then all the "Optimists" will be starting threads about how they can't wait until football starts, or how Adam Dunn strikes out too much.

    That's how sports boards go... IMO that is.

  5. #49
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    A-

    We may be one of the few teams in baseball who addressed every reasonable concern in the offseason. Yes, we overspent on Eric Milton. But the contract is only 3 years, and most definitely not untradable. Randa is the perfect bridge to Encarnacion (I've been advocating Randa on the ESPN boards since we dealt Boone). Ramon Ortiz is the kind of risk we can afford to take, as are Weber and Aurillia.

    The reason for the minus is that if we knew going in that we had 20M to spend, why is Kearns not in an A's uni right now? This was a great opportunity to add that impact starter and we passed. Kearns/Pena and Moseley could've brought us a real #1 type guy.

    However, with Graves 6M gone after this year, Casey likely gone in '07, no other big contracts outside of Jr. and Milton (who will be in year #3), we're in pretty good financial shape relative to our talent for the next 3 or 4 years -- we should be able to continue to compete/improve without raising payroll significantly.

  6. #50
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by XRedsfan07
    Of course they will. All the nay sayers will become the guys saying "I told you signing Randa/Milton/Aurilia/etc. would pay off"

    That's how sports goes. You've the eternal optamists, the eternal pesamists, and the fair weather fan.
    Yup, that sure is the way things work around here...
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  7. #51
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommyjohn25
    Fantastic Post! I give them an A as well, I also think it's a shame that people like you and I expect to get blasted for being optimistic about the team that everyone on this site is a die hard fan of. I dunno...maybe i just drank too much "kool-aid".
    In fairness, the supposed "pessimists" are getting blasted every bit as much as the "optimists", maybe more so.

  8. #52
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    How can the team be penalized for not signing Dunn to a long-term contract when he and his agent refused to?

    Mind-boggling stuff, really.

  9. #53
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by iammrred
    How can the team be penalized for not signing Dunn to a long-term contract when he and his agent refused to?

    Mind-boggling stuff, really.

    I bet he and his agent would not have "refused" had the dollar figure caught their eye. Eh?

  10. #54
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    D-
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  11. #55
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    How many "optimists" will say they wer wrong if the REds lose 90 games?

    There will be plenty of reasons why, but it will never be because the moves made weren't good baseball moves.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  12. #56
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    B-

    I think a grade of C or below is ridiculous. For those who gave a grade below C, they are never going to be happy unless we spend like the Yankees.

    The Reds FO and Carl Lindner tried for the first time in several years to IMPROVE the team and they were successful. This team will be much better than in 2004 or 03 or 02 or 01 or 00. It's not a World Series contender by any means and probably not a NLCS contender, but the playoffs are a legitimate opportunity.

    The bullpen was crap last year...it's been addressed. Granted, these veterans are not long-term answers, but outside of closers, most bullpens are made up of grissly veterans.

    Starting pitching was crap last year...it's been addressed. Milton and Ortiz should help take the load off Wilson's shoulders. Wilson isn't anywhere near a no. 1 or no. 2 starter and now he doesn't have to be. If Ortiz can regain his form, he'll fit in nicely at No. 2 or No. 3. As far as the last two spots, I just hope we can catch lightning in a bottle with Harang, Hudson or Claussen. Just imagine, if we're actually in it come July, we could go for one starter and potentially have a decent 4-man rotation depending on what happens.

    Joe Randa and Rich Aurilla are nice "cheap" signees. We didn't blow a lot of money on these two, but both are veterans who have been very solid major leaguers before and are not very far removed from their best years. I don't want to hear anymore of this Larkin crap. He couldn't stay healthy long enough. Randa and Aurilla can bridge the gap between the present and the future.

    Signing Milton, whether you agree we overpaid or not, was a sign to me this team at least somewhat cares about the product on the field. When's the last time the Reds signed a free agent for big-time bucks? I can't remember. It's not like we're the Tigers (signing Mags) and overpaid other teams by $20M. The deal Milton accepted from the Reds was the same offer by 3-4 other teams. To me, I would have rather the Reds signed Milton than them keeping the money in their pockets.

    Hopefully, the youth of this team (Kearns, Dunn, Wily Mo) along with the veterans (Griffey, Casey, Randa, DJ, Larue) will mix together well and at least give Reds fans a pennant race to pay attention to.

    Much more improvement is needed before we start thinking about the World Series, but this offseason was a step in the right direction, a step that hasn't been made for 5 years.

  13. #57
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by GriffeyFan
    B-

    I think a grade of C or below is ridiculous. For those who gave a grade below C, they are never going to be happy unless we spend like the Yankees.

    The Reds FO and Carl Lindner tried for the first time in several years to IMPROVE the team and they were successful. This team will be much better than in 2004 or 03 or 02 or 01 or 00. It's not a World Series contender by any means and probably not a NLCS contender, but the playoffs are a legitimate opportunity.
    Actually, I'd rather they spend like Oakland or Minnesota, but go on believing what you want to believe.

    I'm sorry, but this club isn't as good as the '00 team. Ya know, the team that won 85 games.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  14. #58
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by GriffeyFan
    B-

    I think a grade of C or below is ridiculous. For those who gave a grade below C, they are never going to be happy unless we spend like the Yankees.
    Is there really a need for these comments. The world is full of uncertainty with thousands of shades of grey. It is possible to objectively weigh the evidence and come to a different conclusion than YOU "think" we should have come to. I've heard countless times over the course of the offseason how I'll never be happy until they become the Yankees or I'll never be happy period. Quite the contrary is true. I don't want the Reds to spend lavishly on over-priced old aged stars. I want them to spend whatever money they have to spend wisely regardless if it's $100 million or $40 million. And based on my own observation of the offseason I don't think they've done either.

    Stop telling me how I'm supposed to feel when I'm capable of doing it on my own. Trust me, I get absolutely nothing out of having a negative viewpoint on the Red front offce, but how can one deny the ineptitude of what they've done over the last 5 years?
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  15. #59
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by GriffeyFan
    B-

    I think a grade of C or below is ridiculous. For those who gave a grade below C, they are never going to be happy unless we spend like the Yankees.
    Or spend money on quality players?

    If you think Milton and Ortiz are quality pitchers, then a grade of A or B is reasonable. If you think Milton and Ortiz are mediocre and/or below average, then a grade of C or D is reasonable. That's how I see it at least.

  16. #60
    Ripsnort wheels's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    Is there really a need for these comments. The world is full of uncertainty with thousands of shades of grey. It is possible to objectively weigh the evidence and come to a different conclusion than YOU "think" we should have come to. I've heard countless times over the course of the offseason how I'll never be happy until they become the Yankees or I'll never be happy period. Quite the contrary is true. I don't want the Reds to spend lavishly on over-priced old aged stars. I want them to spend whatever money they have to spend wisely regardless if it's $100 million or $40 million. And based on my own observation of the offseason I don't think they've done either.

    Stop telling me how I'm supposed to feel when I'm capable of doing it on my own. Trust me, I get absolutely nothing out of having a negative viewpoint on the Red front offce, but how can one deny the ineptitude of what they've done over the last 5 years?
    Stop making sense, and get on the bandwagon, bub.

    Thinkin's fer wussies.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn


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