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Thread: Grade the offseason.

  1. #106
    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by notredymade
    Keyword, SOME. I could go through the rest, but I'd like to see how y'all would like to put their offseason IN CONTEXT with the rest of the league's offseason.
    i think Anaheim had the best off season.....
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  3. #107
    Administrator Boss-Hog's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    Honestly, even given Pedro's age, I'd much rather be debating the intelligence of the Reds' signing Martinez versus Milton.
    Right...even if the Mets do regret signing Pedro to that contract given his age/injury history, I can't imagine Eric Milton's best being any better than Pedro's worst, based on substantial track history. And then there's that Beltran guy...

  4. #108
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw
    So if this sub-par offseason happens to lead to a playoff spot...it's still a bad offseason?

    It won't. Use any metric you want--it's not gonna happen.

  5. #109
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Stats are the naked truth. Opinions are the push up bra of the sports world.
    Well, then opinions still leaves a little to the imagination

  6. #110
    Member SteelSD's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw
    So if this sub-par offseason happens to lead to a playoff spot...it's still a bad offseason?
    The positive result of a bad decision, that doesn't make the decision itself any better.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

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  7. #111
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    It won't. Use any metric you want--it's not gonna happen.
    Did you think the 1999 team had a chance to be in the race on the day after the last day of the season?

    Don't say it won't happen because you don't know.
    "Strickland Propane... Taste the meat, not the heat." - Hank Hill

  8. #112
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Well, I guess a few of us are happy and comfortable in our ignorance......I compare getting Milton to getting Neagle or Smiley. Ortiz could just as easily turn into getting Danny Jackson as the bad move I guess his acquistion is getting from the learned.

    As they say, ignorance is bliss.

    Of course, you could use your superior insight and knowledge of baseball to give the Reds a bad grade, and as has been shown in the past, you will probably be right. But I am just going to go with a rotation of at least 4 decent pitchers and some interesting youngsters.....with the hope that there MIGHT even be some help on the farm coming.....and just be excited about this coming season.
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  9. #113
    Administrator Boss-Hog's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan30
    Did you think the 1999 team had a chance to be in the race on the day after the last day of the season?

    Don't say it won't happen because you don't know.
    I hear this a lot and I can tell you from experience that a lot of people that post on this board were a lot more excited about the 1999 Reds' chances than this year's team - myself included. M2 posted an interesting comparison between the two not too long ago that, IMO, debunked the notion that you couldn't have seen those 96 wins coming ahead of time...

  10. #114
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan30
    Did you think the 1999 team had a chance to be in the race on the day after the last day of the season?

    Don't say it won't happen because you don't know.
    The 1999 team had a good outfield, but lots of folks were weary of the youth in the infield prior to the season, aside for Larkin the other 3 players had a total of 1072 ab's between them.

    A team that really increased their offensive and rode the BP like a Pony Express rider.

    They surprised me.

  11. #115
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    "with the hope that there MIGHT even be some help on the farm coming."

    You know, you're absolutely right about this--the farm is/was/will be the X-factor for any team, and it always changes the course of the ENTIRE sport of MLB. Every year, the race to the postseason is affected by the emergence of someone unforeseen (or foreseen as the case may be) coming from the minors. I do think this is the reason most pre-season predictions come derailed, even those of the smartest minds in baseball--the failure to predict ETA of prospects.

    However, I don't see any impact players on a scale of a Cabrera in the Reds system.

  12. #116
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss-Hog
    I hear this a lot and I can tell you from experience that a lot of people that post on this board were a lot more excited about the 1999 Reds' chances than this year's team - myself included. M2 posted an interesting comparison between the two not too long ago that, IMO, debunked the notion that you couldn't have seen those 96 wins coming ahead of time...
    It'd be interesting to see some of those threads from back then. There were alot a career years that year leading to those big win totals. So I'm not sure I can understand how people would be more excited about 1999 than 2005 based on career numbers.
    "Strickland Propane... Taste the meat, not the heat." - Hank Hill

  13. #117
    Member red-in-la's Avatar
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou
    Stats are the naked truth. Opinions are the push up bra of the sports world.
    But do the stats predict the Reds 1999 season? Do the stats predict that JR has been a total bust? Do the stats predict the 1990 WS Championship?

    The push up bras you refer to are those with the insight to interpret the stats to predict what probably will happen.....and to my knowldege, in over 100 years, NOBODY has cornered the maket on the ability to that consistently in baseball.....period.
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  14. #118
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by red-in-la
    Well, I guess a few of us are happy and comfortable in our ignorance......I compare getting Milton to getting Neagle or Smiley. Ortiz could just as easily turn into getting Danny Jackson as the bad move I guess his acquistion is getting from the learned.
    Danny Jackson put up ERA+ numbers of 121, 133, 114 the three seasons before he joined the Reds. He was a well above average pitcher when he got to Cinci and was about to bust into the beginning of his age-prime years. If Ortiz compared favorably with Jackson as a starter, I'd be saying the same thing. But he doesn't.

    Nor does Milton's recent performance match up with either Neagle or Smiley at that time.

    The only comparison is that they're all pitchers the Reds didn't have the year before. But Neagle, Smiley, and Jackson were all far better acquisitions who actually projected to significantly impact performance to the positive.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
    --Ted Williams

  15. #119
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfan30
    It'd be interesting to see some of those threads from back then. There were alot a career years that year leading to those big win totals. So I'm not sure I can understand how people would be more excited about 1999 than 2005 based on career numbers.

    I thought the 1999 team would be good, but not 96 wins good.

    But you know what, maybe they weren't--as the 2000 team (=1999 team plus Junior/Bichette minus Cameron)--only won 85 games. 1999 team was a fluke--they happen.

  16. #120
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    Re: Grade the offseason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boss-Hog
    Matt, you and a few others praising the Reds in this thread were some of the bigger 'complainers' who always wanted the Reds to do SOMETHING...that's strictly my opinion from reading this board for a long time. Well, the Reds did SOMETHING this past offseason, and I'm glad that these moves make you happy. However, if, by some small chance, these moves don't amount to more than incremental improvement, (i.e. finishing 18 games behind the first place team instead of 20) or an even worse fate, perhaps then you'll learn the difference between doing SOMETHING and doing something well.
    OTOH, if the '05 Reds are playing meaningful games in Sept., will you admit that the FO did something well, or just chalk it up to dumb luck?
    "People that frequent Internet forums resemble the cast of One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest!" - C. J. Cregg, The West Wing


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