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Thread: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

  1. #31
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    Rosie,

    I don't see that Keyes' actions necessarily preclude forgiveness toward his daughter. You can remove privileges (which all of those discussed in the article are) without it resulting from anger and unforgiveness. Of course, we don't have enough information to tell, but my guess is that this situation reached another stage that Mr. Keyes, as a father, decided required more drastic action. Heck, he might even be dead wrong...sometimes them Chreestyuns just plain blow it. Fortunately, when this Chreestyun blows it, it doesn't become front page news that folks use to discredit any stance I've ever taken, but Keyes is in the limelight, so that's the way it goes.
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  3. #32
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    So having her fired, pulling financial support he had prevuously promised, kicking her out of the house and refusing to speak with her isn't disowning her? What a strange way to show he loves her.
    No, it isn't. I would call it discipline. There are many, many different ways to show someone you love them, and sometimes giving someone total freedom is the only way to do so. Is it loving to allow someone to continue doing something that you believe is literally killing them, body and soul (which Keyes does)? That seems hypocritical to me.
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  4. #33
    MarsArmyGirl RosieRed's Avatar
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    Rosie,

    I don't see that Keyes' actions necessarily preclude forgiveness toward his daughter. You can remove privileges (which all of those discussed in the article are) without it resulting from anger and unforgiveness. Of course, we don't have enough information to tell, but my guess is that this situation reached another stage that Mr. Keyes, as a father, decided required more drastic action. Heck, he might even be dead wrong...sometimes them Chreestyuns just plain blow it. Fortunately, when this Chreestyun blows it, it doesn't become front page news that folks use to discredit any stance I've ever taken, but Keyes is in the limelight, so that's the way it goes.
    You're right, his actions don't necessarily preclude forgiveness. On the other hand, I don't think his actions show any signs of forgiveness, tolerance, understanding, sympathy, acceptance, whatever you want to call it.

    My point was just that she is his daughter, and I think it's a shame he feels the need to fire her and not pay for college, etc. So her sexuality isn't in line with what he expects, and neither are her political beliefs. So what? She's suddenly undeserving of the privileges? Taking them away will do what, except punish her (and for what)? Make her not be gay?

    I can't help but think he's choosing politics over his daughter, and I don't agree with that.

  5. #34
    Member The Baumer's Avatar
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    Keyes' beliefs are that the after life is eternal and more important than this temporary life. Why would he have her sacrifice the eternal after life so she could be more comfortable in the temporary life?

  6. #35
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by RosieRed
    You're right, his actions don't necessarily preclude forgiveness. On the other hand, I don't think his actions show any signs of forgiveness, tolerance, understanding, sympathy, acceptance, whatever you want to call it.

    My point was just that she is his daughter, and I think it's a shame he feels the need to fire her and not pay for college, etc. So her sexuality isn't in line with what he expects, and neither are her political beliefs. So what? She's suddenly undeserving of the privileges? Taking them away will do what, except punish her (and for what)? Make her not be gay?

    I can't help but think he's choosing politics over his daughter, and I don't agree with that.
    Everything you said is certainly possible. I certainly hope not, but it is entirely possible. That's why I'm glad my parenting choices, some of which I have totally blown, remain relatively private, I sure wouldn't want them dissected in the newspaper, on a message board, or on every talk show in America.
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  7. #36
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor
    No, it isn't. I would call it discipline. There are many, many different ways to show someone you love them, and sometimes giving someone total freedom is the only way to do so. Is it loving to allow someone to continue doing something that you believe is literally killing them, body and soul (which Keyes does)? That seems hypocritical to me.
    But at what point does she become free to make her own decisions? (I am coming about this from the perspective that being homosexual is a choice...I don't believe it is, but Mr. Keyes does, so we'll go from there.)

    Would he still punish her for staying out too late? How about not eating properly? Not studying hard enough for an exam? How about getting a speeding ticket? At what point can she live her own life?

    To me this is about two things: Mr. Keyes inability to accept that he has a daughter different from how he envisions things to be, and him attempting to reclaim his credibility upon the public announcement that his daughter is one of the people that he so long has villified.

    All this despite the fact that she swallowed back and worked FOR him on his campaign. This isn't about parental guidance, this is about Mr. Keye's placing his politics ahead of his daughter.

  8. #37
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baumer
    Keyes' beliefs are that the after life is eternal and more important than this temporary life. Why would he have her sacrifice the eternal after life so she could be more comfortable in the temporary life?
    So you think that his actions will somehow turn her away from homosexuality?

    I swear this country needs other things to worry about. In terms of "threats" to my well-being, both in this life and in the afterlife, other people's sexual orientation ranks pretty low on the list of things I concern myself with.

  9. #38
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    So you think that his actions will somehow turn her away from homosexuality?

    I swear this country needs other things to worry about. In terms of "threats" to my well-being, both in this life and in the afterlife, other people's sexual orientation ranks pretty low on the list of things I concern myself with.
    In this instance, this is not "the country" worrying about it, but two individuals at odds over a moral issue.

    Personally, I think it shows a lot of backbone in one's own convictions when they can withstand the personal choices of a person one loves the way a parent loves a child. I am always disheartened when I see parents suddenly change course about serious moral issues because a child starts to practice a certain lifestyle. I might disagree with Keyes' beliefs and politics, but I certainly can say he is staying true to a conviction, even at the risk of an estranged relationship with a child.
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  10. #39
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    I am always disheartened when I see parents suddenly change course about serious moral issues because a child starts to practice a certain lifestyle. I might disagree with Keyes' beliefs and politics, but I certainly can say he is staying true to a conviction, even at the risk of an estranged relationship with a child.
    From my perspective, I'm glad when people realize that morality very complex and that you may have to re-evaluate your position on some issues that you used to be certain about. People used to hold convictions that the Bible supported slavery and that interracial relationships were wrong. Thankfully, many people have re-evaluated those convictions. Understanding is never a bad thing.
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  11. #40
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    From my perspective, I'm glad when people realize that morality very complex and that you may have to re-evaluate your position on some issues that you used to be certain about. People used to hold convictions that the Bible supported slavery and that interracial relationships were wrong. Thankfully, many people have re-evaluated those convictions. Understanding is never a bad thing.
    Hear, hear.

  12. #41
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by RosieRed
    I can't help but think he's choosing politics over his daughter, and I don't agree with that.
    I guess the message is never takes sides against the family in a culture war.
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  13. #42
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    From my perspective, I'm glad when people realize that morality very complex and that you may have to re-evaluate your position on some issues that you used to be certain about. People used to hold convictions that the Bible supported slavery and that interracial relationships were wrong. Thankfully, many people have re-evaluated those convictions. Understanding is never a bad thing.
    That is a great point, which I am pretty sure was directed at my comments. However, the point falls apart when the convictions are properly held, which the examples you provided were based on faulty interpretations of Scripture. This would not be one of those issues, in my opinion.

    There is certainly room for changing one's mind about certain moral issues when confronted with new information that one has not considered before. However, if one decided that the Bible did not condemn homosexuality because a child turned out to be homosexual, then that person would be compromising, with my fallible interpretation of Scripture as the basis for that opinion. That was my point.
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  14. #43
    SERP deep cover ops WebScorpion's Avatar
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baumer
    Keyes' beliefs are that the after life is eternal and more important than this temporary life. Why would he have her sacrifice the eternal after life so she could be more comfortable in the temporary life?
    It appears pretty simple to me. If Keyes were truly worried about her eternal soul, he would have cut her off when he found out she was gay. He did not. He cut her off when she went public, thus he's only protecting his political image. With a support system that jaded, she's better of without him anyway. He's filth.

    Anyone who thinks Jesus would have disowned one of our brothers or sisters for sinning, has a myopic view of God's word. How many examples of forgiveness do you need before you understand what God wants you to do?
    :dflynn:
    Last edited by WebScorpion; 02-15-2005 at 01:00 AM.

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  15. #44
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    Quote Originally Posted by WebScorpion

    Anyone who thinks Jesus would have disowned one of our brothers or sisters for sinning, has a myopic view of God's word. How many examples of forgiveness do you need before you understand what God wants you to do?
    :dflynn:
    I am no particular fan of Alan Keyes, who has always seemed to be something of a grandstander to me.
    I will say that to depict Christianity as nothing more than simple toleration of whatever anyone wants to do is not consistent with the teachings of Jesus Christ (and I'm not saying that the above post advocated that; just that forgiveness is not all Jesus taught-he taught repentance as well). Jesus did not condemn the woman caught in adultery in chapter 8 of the Gospel of John, but he also told her in verse 11: "go, and sin no more."
    My sons will always be my sons, and heaven help me should I ever abandon or disown one of them, but that does not mean that I should blindly support whatever decisions they may make in life either.
    I of course do not know Keyes or his daughter, so I'm forming opinions based upon partial knowledge, but neither one appears to be particularly admirable to me.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  16. #45
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

    My sons will always be my sons, and heaven help me should I ever abandon or disown one of them, but that does not mean that I should blindly support whatever decisions they may make in life either.
    Unless I'm mistaken, I don't think anyone is advocating that Keyes should blindly support her "decision". Without getting into whether or not her homosexuality is a choice, I just think it's ridiculous to disown your kids regardless of what they're doing.

    You have children, you stand by them, through ups and downs. That's what being a parent ought to be about. It's hard for me to believe that Christ would have disagreed.
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