I hate Mason, he is like a waterbug, and seems to always have a big day against the Bengals. Now, twice a year of him knocking off big gains across the middle. Maybe Boller will miss him when he's wide open (entirely possible).Originally Posted by Reds Fanatic
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
GoReds, I understand and agree that the Pats mainly built through the draft.
I disagree that, at least for SB39, Corey Dillon wasn't a big part of that success.
And, I disagree that Dillon somehow doesn't count... if anything he "counts" more because the team had to give up BOTH big bucks AND other assets.
Bottom line... I completely disagree that Bob Kraft and Mike Brown are as willing to spend money as one another, as one would be led to think you and the others who have posted to this thread believe.
Have no clue where you get the vendetta business... actually, COMPLETELY to the contrary, Mike Brown has never done anything to me personally, nor has his incompetence had any impact whatsoever on my life. Can't give you a good reason for starting this thread, except that I live close enough to Cincinnati and listen to enough pro-Bengals sports talk that it drives me nuts to watch you guys chase your tail every 3-4 years... and how quickly you forget and forgive this pompous numbskull owner and his family on the basis of Marvin Lewis' competence.
Finally, not sure where you're getting the "emotion" part in that zinger... unless "citing history and asserting that there's nothing tangible that's demonstrating Brown drifting from that history"... unless that logic is called "emotion" in your world.
Last edited by _sturt_; 03-02-2005 at 05:30 PM.
Its official now the Bengals have signed Houshmandzadeh to a 4 year contract. So they have both him and Chad Johnson signed through 2008.
http://www.bengals.com/press/news.as...0&news_id=2782
Last edited by Reds Fanatic; 03-02-2005 at 08:15 PM.
Thanks for watching us poor saps' backsCan't give you a good reason for starting this thread, except that I live close enough to Cincinnati and listen to enough pro-Bengals sports talk that it drives me nuts to watch you guys chase your tail every 3-4 years... and how quickly you forget and forgive this pompous numbskull owner and his family on the basis of Marvin Lewis' competence.
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
I get you, trade, but I mean no disrespect... I wish better for my Cincinnati friends, sure... but I think, when it really comes down to it, my ire is driven more by the same repugnance I hold for Donald Sterling of the LA Clippers and Bill Bidwell of the AZ Cardinals...Thanks for watching us poor saps' backs
But w/ Brown it's a lot worse. Bidwell's dad was not football royalty.
Mikey mocks his own father, arrogantly succling his own vanity, playing along all these years as if he is just as great a football talent evaluator as his dad. And the man just isn't real enough with himself to admit that this is a franchise crippled by his refusal to give someone else the GM reins, and just generally, crippled by his and his family's greed -- greed for BOTH money AND control.
How can you not respect and hallow Paul Brown if you're a football fan, regardless of what team you cheer for?
But EXACTLY to my point... how can you be Paul Brown's son and care more about your own reputation as an NFL general manager and your own family's fortune than NFL championships???
It's just repulsive to anyone who isn't emotionally-tied to the Bengals; it's been repulsive, too, to most Bengals fans as I sit here and remember all the talk after LeBeau's exit... but unfortunately enough, most of that repulsion proved only sporadic and apparently based on fickle emotion.
Guess I'm just looking for that Bengals fan, or two, or three, who have a backbone, and who refuse to be put on by this "Mike Brown, General Manager" futility and silliness any more.
I'll part with this, and leave you all with the last word if you choose... putting aside the fact that the Bengals had to have a late season spark to even attain their 2003 record... sure, Coach Lewis has things on a positive track for the present... but I ask you this, which goes to the core of all I'm putting forward to you -- how much better could the Bengals be if Lewis had the luxury of a real football mind sitting in the GM chair, truly a sounding board for his own superb judgment, and someone who's own track record showed some success that deserves Lewis' respect???
Just my opinion, which doesn't count for much here obviously, but I dare say you would have had a playoff team last season -- or at the least, all of your preseason optimism about finally breaking into the winning season column would have come about. But your head coach hasn't the benefit of a viable personnel person b/c Mike Brown -- still -- considers himself equal to Paul Brown.
So if you love Mike Brown... go ahead... all I can say is, you deserve each other.
Last edited by _sturt_; 03-02-2005 at 11:26 PM.
sturt,
You're living in the past. Mike Brown changed, he did exactly what you said he should do. He is not the GM, Marvin, Katie and Troy have their fingerprints on everything. And I have to say right now, I think the gene skipped a generation and went to the granddaughter, she seems to have a nose for running this franchise, and seems to be the one who has her dad's ear that keeps him at a distance, where he needs to be. Katie is the one who went to bat to bring in Marvin, her dad wanted Coughlin. That was one of the biggest turning points in franchise history, and they continue to head the right direction.
Everything you said in your most recent post may have been true at one time, but the recent actions of the franchise indicate that Mike Brown finally realized he is a better administrator than talent evaluator and hired someone to do a job he had failed at.
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
I guess your evidence of that are the Bengals PR pieces.
If that's enough for you, I've got nothing for you. Who can argue with Jack Brennan and what he's told to say?
I'll stick with the facts as laid out at http://www.bengals.com/team/frontoffice.asp ...and the results of free agency where, whoever-is-in-charge continues to demonstrate that he himself is on a leash, whether you want to believe that that is self-imposed or imposed from above.
Honestly, trade, forgoodnessakes... name me one other team in the HISTORY OF THE N-F-bygawd-L where the President, the Business Manager, and the TWO player personnel people all are RELATED... ???
If Mike Brown has turned this page as you allege, where has he added ANYONE from outside his football and/or physical family other than Lewis??? It's a frickin puppet show of football inbreeding.
You hint that you think Brown has given Lewis the general manager duties. Okay. Riddle me this. If that were really and truly so, why on earth wouldn't Marvin have the title? Chew on that awhile. Why would Brown keep that designation from Lewis? And before you utter your first excuse for that, pray tell, who represents the Bengals when the league holds general manager meetings?
And if Katie is handling the business side so aptly, what the hell does the President of the company do with his time now?
Brown isn't stupid -- he knows to keep a low profile given the backlash post-LeBeau. Should we be surprised that everything coming out of Bengals HQ ignores the President's role in anything? I mean, who can be mad at Katie? Who can be mad at Marvin? Gotta give Brennan credit... the propaganda has apparently been masterful at taking the target off of Mike Brown's head.
Finally, let me pass along this training camp Marvin Lewis Q&A and its link for your indigestion (http://www.fantasyfootballcafe.com/f...ic.php?t=10097)
...wow ...Arthur Murray has nothing on ol' Marvin... the interviewer gave him every chance to make it clear that Marvin gets what Marvin wants, and all Marvin could do was backpedal and sidestep... well, at least until that last line where he makes it crystal clear... "I"m just a football coach... I don't need to be any more than that."GH: Has Mike given you everything you wanted?
ML: I don't know what he's given me. We work together.
GH: Has he given you free reign?
ML: I don't know if it's free reign or not. Mike has been very supportive of the things we feel it takes to win. He's been 100 percent supportive of everything. And that's all I can ask for. We're not always going to agree, and we've been able to sit down and discuss why we don't agree and come to a solution and that's our way.
It's not Mike's way and it's not necessarily my way. It's been our way. That's important for the coaches to know that and understand that. We're not going to be a split camp. There's no way in the NFL where you can function for very long like that.
GH: Have you been split on a lot of things because it looks to be smooth?
ML: I'm sure we have split on things.
GH: More than you thought you would?
ML: No.
GH: Less?
ML: I don't think about it. Obviously, I was excited about coming here and working with Mike after we had our two face-to-face meetings. It's been great. When I don't get to talk to him, like being away or on vacation, and we don't get to sit down, I miss talking to him every day because he has a lot of insights. He's very thorough. He's a deep thinker and he always listens. He's a good resource for me.
GH: Has it been smoother than you thought it would be?
ML: It's been very smooth. The one thing is, I enjoy it. I enjoy our management, and the people I work for and with.
GH: Because you have such a close working relationship with Mike, you almost seem like a general manager.
ML: Not me. I'm just a football coach that wants to win. I don't need to be any more than that.
So much for the uninvolved reincarnate Mike Brown.
And, so much for my "living in the past." Looks more like history repeating itself to me. I doubt you'd get any different answers from what Dick LeBeau or any of his predecessors would have said about Brown.
So much for "Mike Brown changed, (and) he did exactly what you said he should do"...
So much for "He is not the GM, (and) Marvin, Katie and Troy have their fingerprints on everything"...
And, so much for "Mike Brown finally realized he is a better administrator than talent evaluator and hired someone to do a job he had failed at."
No less than Marvin himself disputes with your conclusions.
You can even argue how much he's taking Marvin's recommendations, and for the sake of argument let's even say he is giving Marvin 90% of everything he asks for...
The point remains... the one thing that you cannot deny is that Mike Brown has, in no way, removed himself from being General Manager and having the final say on who is acquired and how much will be spent.
The day Brown hires a no-doubt-about-it general manager is the day you will be able to credibly testify to his conversion, and potentially, his redemption...
Until then, all he's done, for a change, is hire a good coach, and one from outside "the family."
*Whew*
Said horse beaten. Beaten profusely.
So now... as the grand kahuna of comedy might say, "this time I'm bein honest with you when I say" ... the last word is yours... no... really.
Last edited by _sturt_; 03-03-2005 at 11:58 PM.
Wow....You have really got a serious axe to grind.
"Baseball players are smarter than football players. How often do you see a baseball team penalized for too many men on the field?" ~ Jim Bouton
Does it not bother you at least a little bit that you seem to be the only one tilting at the windmill here, Mr. Quixote? That not one poster has come to your aid and at least added a kudo to what you have said?
Chew on that for a second.
Marvin Lewis is telling you the same thing that any competent coach worth their salt will tell you - that a coach and general manager have to work together to put a good team on the field. It's when the two parties don't work in unison that you get nasty results such as the Bengals from 1990-2002, the 49ers of the past few years, etc. If you really want to rail against an owner who obviously consults little with his staff, I invite you to visit the Redskins board. I'm sure there will be several who agree with you there.
In any event, I'm through "debating" what is obviously a very emotional topic for you. Rail away if you must. Enjoy the crickets.
Anyone reading this thread would arrive at that conclusion. If you really believe that, you might want to rethink it.
I can, I did, and I will. There is more evidence that Marvin, Katie and Troy are actually handling the day to day operations, while your take on things requires a conspiratorial publicist. Brown, as the owner, seems to rigthly still make the call on major purchases. I guess it is important to you that someone have the title of GM, although that is not something that is a given in the NFL. What makes the difference if someone has the title as long as they are fairly compensated for wearing many hats, which Marvin surely is? Also, I think Marvin is a good business manager when he sidesteps questions about how the ship is run that are none of inquirer's business. His respect is to his boss, not inquiring minds who want to know.
Now, I am done with taking part in the expression of your vendetta.
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
Well, well, well...
Rudi and TJ both are retained, a free agent defensive lineman has been brought in...
Where'd you go, _sturt_?
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
Free Agency is a joke for the most part. I understood why Marvin used it his first year, we had such crap talent it was a way to infuse some talent and buy him a gap for his own personell through the draft. Good teams RARELY use free agency and build within the draft, exactly what Marvin is doing. Chris Perry aside we haven't had two drafts like this back to back in twenty years. Palmer, Steinbach, Washington, Ratliff, Williams, Geathers, Johnson, Miller. That's alot of new talent that is gonna be damn good for years.
This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.
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