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Thread: Terri Schiavo

  1. #61
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    I think a vast majority of Americans are opposed to, or very aprehensive, at enacting euthanasia laws in this country for various reasons...
    Everything I have read shows the opposite, especially when specific restrictions are laid out. There aren't many people who would want to be in Terry Schiavo's place right now, and I can't see them denying that to someone else.

    And this may sound silly, but I sometimes feel that our medical profession has at times lost the "humane" aspect that is to guide that profession.
    I would disagree with that. Take a look at this survey from the NE Journal of Medicine:

    "Eleven percent of the physicians said that under current legal constraints, there were circumstances in which they would be willing to hasten a patient's death by prescribing medication, and 7 percent said that they would provide a lethal injection; 36 percent and 24 percent, respectively, said that they would do so if it were legal."

    It seems that we want someone to do this to us in these situations, but it's tough finding someone to do it.

    I realize this is a little different than the Schiavo case, but it's still worth noting.
    If you're watchin' a parade, make sure you stand in one spot, don't follow it, it never changes. And if the parade is boring, run in the opposite direction, you will fast-foward the parade. --Mitch Hedberg

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  3. #62
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Heeler
    As for Heeler, Jr, thanks for the congrats. He is our first, and I have to say that being a Dad is the coolest thing going. I'm getting by alright on sleep. He is a pretty placid little fellow right now. Mrs. Heeler has it worse than I do. She is breast feeding, so she has to get up a couple of times during the night to feed him.
    He'll do alot better when you can start giving him cereal mixed with formula. They sleep longer then.

    And you're right...it is the coolest thing. I was in the room when each of my children were born, and even though I am not an emotional person (it's a man thing), I almost came to tears watching them being born. It was simply awesome.

    And know that two of them are teenagers (16 and 14), they still bring me to tears (and gray hairs).

    But I wouldn't have it any other way.

    My oldest boy is getting his permit this Spring, so that should be a real challenge. I'm gonna need a prescription for Demarol.

  4. #63
    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    Looks like a further waste of money as Congress agrees to meet on a weekend to pass a bill. With the amount of money they are wasting they can save hundreds of 3rd world children. You know the kids that actually have the Cerebal Cortex, but no feeding tube. :thumbdown

  5. #64
    Member dman's Avatar
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by RedBloodedAmerican
    Looks like a further waste of money as Congress agrees to meet on a weekend to pass a bill. With the amount of money they are wasting they can save hundreds of 3rd world children. You know the kids that actually have the Cerebal Cortex, but no feeding tube. :thumbdown
    Not to sound crass here, but why try to save third world child before we try to save on of our own citizens?

  6. #65
    Member TeamCasey's Avatar
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    Thread diversion starts here. :MandJ:
    Pots and Kettles

  7. #66
    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by dman
    Not to sound crass here, but why try to save third world child before we try to save on of our own citizens?
    The only way you are going to save this woman is if somehow you can freeze her for 300 years, bring her back and than use the latest scientific stem cell discoveries to regrow her brain.

  8. #67
    Puffy's Daddy Red Leader's Avatar
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamCasey
    Thread diversion starts here. :MandJ:
    So true, so true.
    'When I'm not longer rapping, I want to open up an ice cream parlor and call myself Scoop Dogg.'
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  9. #68
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by dman
    If/When you or loved one is involved in an auto accident or something of the sort, and the medics didn't do CPR becuase they felt you were D-E-A-D, how would you feel? Teri's still breathing and her heart still beats that's far from D-E-A-D.
    How would I feel? How would I feel? Perhaps a better question, dman, is how did I feel?

    In 1990, I was returning from a business trip to Europe. In those pre-cellphone days, I was out of touch during the flight from France to Los Angeles and when I finally got home I found frantic calls on my answering machine from my sister to call her immediately. My Dad, who had been suffering from the devistation of Alzheimer's had suffered a massive heart attack. He was now on life support with a hole in his heart so big that there was no surgery that could repair it. We could keep him on life support indefiniately and he would 'live' on, of course. It was our decission to make.

    My Mom, my sister and I discussed it. We all agreed. It was better to let him go. Why prolong a life that had been full and wonderful just to say that he was alive----because he certainly wasn't living!

    My Dad remained 'alive' almost six hours after we took him off of the life support system, but he had passed from this earth a much earlier time before.

    So, since you asked, that's how I did feel. And I still feel that way. I'm not trying to put you on the spot or make you feel bad. It's just ironic that you asked a hypothetical question of someone that has gone through this already. I bear you no malice over it and I sincerely hope that you aren't faced with a similar situation someday.

    Rem

  10. #69
    Member dman's Avatar
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by remdog
    How would I feel? How would I feel? Perhaps a better question, dman, is how did I feel?

    In 1990, I was returning from a business trip to Europe. In those pre-cellphone days, I was out of touch during the flight from France to Los Angeles and when I finally got home I found frantic calls on my answering machine from my sister to call her immediately. My Dad, who had been suffering from the devistation of Alzheimer's had suffered a massive heart attack. He was now on life support with a hole in his heart so big that there was no surgery that could repair it. We could keep him on life support indefiniately and he would 'live' on, of course. It was our decission to make.

    My Mom, my sister and I discussed it. We all agreed. It was better to let him go. Why prolong a life that had been full and wonderful just to say that he was alive----because he certainly wasn't living!

    My Dad remained 'alive' almost six hours after we took him off of the life support system, but he had passed from this earth a much earlier time before.

    So, since you asked, that's how I did feel. And I still feel that way. I'm not trying to put you on the spot or make you feel bad. It's just ironic that you asked a hypothetical question of someone that has gone through this already. I bear you no malice over it and I sincerely hope that you aren't faced with a similar situation someday.

    Rem
    I understand that your not trying to put me on the spot, and no malice is even remotely taken from this. However, Terri Schiavo is not on life support. She does not have a machine breathing for her. She only requires a feeding tube as her major medical assistance. This is a far cry from a person who is brain dead or clinically dead.

    BTW, if one of my family members or myself were on a ventilator I think I would want them to let me go just the same as I would want them to go on at that point, but I just can't see doing that over a feeding tube.
    Last edited by dman; 03-21-2005 at 07:29 AM.

  11. #70
    MaskedMarvel
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by TeamCasey


    I'd hate my family if they kept me prisoner in my own body.
    But if that were the case, wouldn't that mean that you were of sound mind? in order to realize any type of wrong doing here, she would have to realize what was going on,

    Thus the right to stay alive is not our's, it's NOT her life, it was given too and should taken from by God, God doesn't play chess with our lives, his reasonning often many more times than not is superiorly beyond our comprehension. But life and death, beit in a natural state, is not in our egotistical man made jurisdiction. just my belief.

  12. #71
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    This issue now that is being thrown around quite regularly is what worries me....

    "quality of life"

    What does that mean? What are the defining parameters/restrictions. Or are there any?

    Is it someone who is able to actively contribute to society and not be a burden?

    What about all the people with disabilities of varying nature, or severe emotional problems, that have them institutionalized for life, and require constant care, while contributing very little at all if anything? At least no more then Terry Schiavo.

    Down's syndrome, MS, mental retardation, etc., etc.

    What about death row criminals who are there for life, and who robbed someone of the "quality of life". Why do we fight to keep them alive? Can living on death row be seen as "quality of life"?

    If a person becomes a paraplegic from some sort of accident, and decides they don't want to live this way, should they then have the option to end it? It's somehow their right?

  13. #72
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by dman
    Not to sound crass here, but why try to save third world child before we try to save on of our own citizens?
    1/6 children in the US live in poverty... the same argument could be made about them...

  14. #73
    Potential Lunch Winner Dom Heffner's Avatar
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    1/6 children in the US live in poverty... the same argument could be made about them...
    "Could be" being the operative wording there. You are the only person I've seen proposing this, for what it's worth.

    GAC and NDReds- No one is making the arguments you are describing. People who are mentally disabled are not on life support or feeding tubes.

    And no one is advocating the death of poor children.

    Death row immates do not fall anywhere near the same category as a person in a vegetative state. We are talking different worlds here.

    This slippery slope stuff makes for an interesting high school paper, but it is a logical fallacy nonetheless. Just because people say - and quite correctly- that Terry Schiavo has no quality of life, that does not mean we are going to apply that standard to every segment of the population.

    And yes- if a paraplegic wants to die, then they should be allowed to do so.

    I tell you what- the day a group of paraplegics gets together and votes that they don't have the right to die is the day I won't support euthanasia laws.

    The way it is now, we have perfectly healthy human beings making these decisions for people in difficult circumstances.

    There isn't any of us here who would want to live in a vegetative state for 15 years with our mouths hanging open laying in a hospital bed, but I guarantee you there is someone here who thinks that we are "murdering" Terry Schiavo.

    I would argue that it is cruel and unloving to keep someone alive like that, which is totally consistent with moral principles.

    The Supreme Court got this right today (with the exception of Scalia, I'm sure, who never gets anything right- he was the only dissenting vote in a prior right to die case).
    Last edited by Dom Heffner; 03-24-2005 at 11:14 AM.
    If you're watchin' a parade, make sure you stand in one spot, don't follow it, it never changes. And if the parade is boring, run in the opposite direction, you will fast-foward the parade. --Mitch Hedberg

  15. #74
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    I'll add another tangent. The front page of my local rag, The Dayton Daily News, shows a 14-year-old girl being handcuffed by police for trying to give Ms. Schiavo a glass of water. It says that the teen was arrested with her father who also attempted to deliver water to Ms. Schiavo.

    My question... shouldn't the father be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor or similiar charges? Did he not lead his child into that arrest situation? What kind of a man leads his child into getting arrested? I have my opinions and adjectives to describe this sort of parent, but I'll not give 'em.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  16. #75
    Member TeamCasey's Avatar
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    Re: Terri Schiavo

    Quote Originally Posted by MaskedMarvel
    Thus the right to stay alive is not our's, it's NOT her life, it was given too and should taken from by God, God doesn't play chess with our lives, his reasonning often many more times than not is superiorly beyond our comprehension. But life and death, beit in a natural state, is not in our egotistical man made jurisdiction. just my belief.
    Not sure where you stand from your statement. Are you saying that no medical intervention should be allowed, because life is in God's hands?
    Pots and Kettles


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