M2's comment leaned neither to the left nor the right. It was simple fact.Yes, I found that comment (left as it was) to be disturbing.
M2's comment leaned neither to the left nor the right. It was simple fact.Yes, I found that comment (left as it was) to be disturbing.
"I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful
I left it that way intentionally. Though no matter how bland you leave it, it dredges up a hornet's nest. It's part of the problem with electing a Pope who'd been in the Hitler Youth. It's an ugly spectre and it doesn't go away.Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
It's certainly not going to help if Ratzinger continues to stamp out dissenting opinions in the church and pursues his vision of a "leaner," more exclusive church in the West.
Anyway, you can argue that it's a sign of the insular, disconnected nature of the church hierarchy that it doesn't recognize the inherent problems in elevating an old Bavarian to the papacy. Bavarian Catholics formed the core of the Nazi party. Munich wasn't chosen for the putsch by accident. JP II apologized for the Holocaust for a reason, because the Church and many of its members had been complicit in it. It's not Ratzinger's fault he was born where he was born, but he's a throwback to one of the darkest periods in history and in church history and, unfortunately, geography put him on the wrong side.
Last edited by M2; 04-20-2005 at 01:26 PM.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
I am sure that most 14-year-olds would choose service over death... if given the choice.
Johnny... this is not political at all (I meant left as in "it was left there"... not left in the political sense). The comment, as it was left there, was not appropriate or fair. Regardless of any feelings regarding the Catholic Church. A more appropriate comment would have been something like, "He was in the Hitler Youth b/c all 14-year-old Germans were required to join or die." That is more factual than the original comment that got us here. Obviously some other point was trying to be made, but was left for the reader to figure out on their own (how? maybe by the luck of God someone could have read into that Hitler Youth comment and figured that out).
Let it be known that he also deserted the German army once he was forced to join. The risk of deserting? Death. No trial, just death.
He was forced to join the Hitler Youth.
Sorry. I misunderstood.Johnny... this is not political at all (I meant left as in "it was left there"... not left in the political sense).
"I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful
Since your so keen on context, its important to remember that soldiers were deserting the German Army in droves as an Allied victory appeared imminent.Let it be known that he also deserted the German army once he was forced to join.
I can see how that would happen!! I laughed at it, Johnny. It actually took me a few reads before I realized where you were comin' from on that.
According to the Onion, the run on sinning between popes has come to a screaching halt with the election of Benedict the 16th.
When I get a promotion, I will not be known as Jeremy, I will be Alejandro the 1st. I'm not even Hispanic, but it sounds good. Wait, Ron Mexico the 2nd sounds better.
Being clergy didn't help Dietrich Bonhoeffer much. I guess it must have depended on your affiliation whether or not you were dismissed for a religious pursuit?
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
I am also keen on facts and the whole story. The fact is... he joined the Hitler Youth by no choice of his own. As did many upon many German youth at that time.
And you are absolutely right, Rojo. Many German soldiers knew the inevitable. They also knew that scorching their own soil was not a good idea (as many were told to do). They were also told to kill any German (soldier or not) person who did not stand and fight for the homeland. Thank goodness the Pope and many-many others did this and saved many more lives and kept reconstruction where it was when the war ended.
Strange... the soldiers who decided to fight until the end in WWII Germany remind me of the insurgents in Iraq. No real purpose.... just kill, maim and destroy. Anything or anyone. Even their own.
No the appropriate, and factual, comment to make was "Stalin not so much, but he was a member of the Hitler Youth."
Wasn't trying to make a point beyond that and didn't think I needed to give a history lesson on forced entry into the Hitler Youth or the zeal of Bavarian Catholics for the Nazi party.
I'm not a system player. I am a system.
Once I realized my mistake, I laughed, too.I laughed at it, Johnny.
I guess I'm so used to seeing left/right references, I'm shooting first and asking questions later.
"I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful
The insurgents fighting against an occupying force that they don't appreciate are akin to Nazis?Strange... the soldiers who decided to fight until the end in WWII Germany remind me of the insurgents in Iraq.
Godwin was right.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Are you defending the insurgents? Do you think they have a just cause? Tell us more. Why didn't you say something when "The Pope was a Hitler Youth" was stated. Didn't that bother you too? Or are you only bothered when insurgents are compared to German soldiers (not Nazis.... those were not the words used by me).
Both kill indiscriminately. They even kill their own people. Both wanted to commit genocide to certain groups of people. Fighting a lost cause... both.
Tell us why you think the insurgents are justified in their actions. You have already stated that an occupying force has caused them to fight. Tell us more.
And God Bless our soldiers who try to rid the world of these murderers in Iraq.
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