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Thread: New Pope elected

  1. #31
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: New Pope elected

    Yes, I found that comment (left as it was) to be disturbing.
    M2's comment leaned neither to the left nor the right. It was simple fact.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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  3. #32
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: New Pope elected

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    M2's comment leaned neither to the left nor the right. It was simple fact.
    I left it that way intentionally. Though no matter how bland you leave it, it dredges up a hornet's nest. It's part of the problem with electing a Pope who'd been in the Hitler Youth. It's an ugly spectre and it doesn't go away.

    It's certainly not going to help if Ratzinger continues to stamp out dissenting opinions in the church and pursues his vision of a "leaner," more exclusive church in the West.

    Anyway, you can argue that it's a sign of the insular, disconnected nature of the church hierarchy that it doesn't recognize the inherent problems in elevating an old Bavarian to the papacy. Bavarian Catholics formed the core of the Nazi party. Munich wasn't chosen for the putsch by accident. JP II apologized for the Holocaust for a reason, because the Church and many of its members had been complicit in it. It's not Ratzinger's fault he was born where he was born, but he's a throwback to one of the darkest periods in history and in church history and, unfortunately, geography put him on the wrong side.
    Last edited by M2; 04-20-2005 at 01:26 PM.
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  4. #33
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: New Pope elected

    I am sure that most 14-year-olds would choose service over death... if given the choice.

    Johnny... this is not political at all (I meant left as in "it was left there"... not left in the political sense). The comment, as it was left there, was not appropriate or fair. Regardless of any feelings regarding the Catholic Church. A more appropriate comment would have been something like, "He was in the Hitler Youth b/c all 14-year-old Germans were required to join or die." That is more factual than the original comment that got us here. Obviously some other point was trying to be made, but was left for the reader to figure out on their own (how? maybe by the luck of God someone could have read into that Hitler Youth comment and figured that out).

    Let it be known that he also deserted the German army once he was forced to join. The risk of deserting? Death. No trial, just death.

    He was forced to join the Hitler Youth.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  5. #34
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: New Pope elected

    Johnny... this is not political at all (I meant left as in "it was left there"... not left in the political sense).
    Sorry. I misunderstood.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  6. #35
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    Re: New Pope elected

    Let it be known that he also deserted the German army once he was forced to join.
    Since your so keen on context, its important to remember that soldiers were deserting the German Army in droves as an Allied victory appeared imminent.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  7. #36
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: New Pope elected

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Sorry. I misunderstood.
    I can see how that would happen!! I laughed at it, Johnny. It actually took me a few reads before I realized where you were comin' from on that.

    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  8. #37
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    Re: New Pope elected

    According to the Onion, the run on sinning between popes has come to a screaching halt with the election of Benedict the 16th.
    When I get a promotion, I will not be known as Jeremy, I will be Alejandro the 1st. I'm not even Hispanic, but it sounds good. Wait, Ron Mexico the 2nd sounds better.

  9. #38
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: New Pope elected

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966
    Yes, I found that comment (left as it was) to be disturbing. He was released from the Hitler Youth, which all youth were FORCED to join at age 14, b/c of his desire to become a priest. I guess those who desire to be a priest are not good genocide-machines! Imagine that.
    Being clergy didn't help Dietrich Bonhoeffer much. I guess it must have depended on your affiliation whether or not you were dismissed for a religious pursuit?
    Can't win with 'em

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  10. #39
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: New Pope elected

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo
    Since your so keen on context, its important to remember that soldiers were deserting the German Army in droves as an Allied victory appeared imminent.
    I am also keen on facts and the whole story. The fact is... he joined the Hitler Youth by no choice of his own. As did many upon many German youth at that time.

    And you are absolutely right, Rojo. Many German soldiers knew the inevitable. They also knew that scorching their own soil was not a good idea (as many were told to do). They were also told to kill any German (soldier or not) person who did not stand and fight for the homeland. Thank goodness the Pope and many-many others did this and saved many more lives and kept reconstruction where it was when the war ended.

    Strange... the soldiers who decided to fight until the end in WWII Germany remind me of the insurgents in Iraq. No real purpose.... just kill, maim and destroy. Anything or anyone. Even their own.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  11. #40
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: New Pope elected

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966
    A more appropriate comment would have been something like, "He was in the Hitler Youth b/c all 14-year-old Germans were required to join or die." That is more factual than the original comment that got us here. Obviously some other point was trying to be made, but was left for the reader to figure out on their own (how? maybe by the luck of God someone could have read into that Hitler Youth comment and figured that out).
    No the appropriate, and factual, comment to make was "Stalin not so much, but he was a member of the Hitler Youth."

    Wasn't trying to make a point beyond that and didn't think I needed to give a history lesson on forced entry into the Hitler Youth or the zeal of Bavarian Catholics for the Nazi party.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  12. #41
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: New Pope elected

    I laughed at it, Johnny.
    Once I realized my mistake, I laughed, too.

    I guess I'm so used to seeing left/right references, I'm shooting first and asking questions later.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  13. #42
    A Little to the Left Redsfaithful's Avatar
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    Re: New Pope elected

    Strange... the soldiers who decided to fight until the end in WWII Germany remind me of the insurgents in Iraq.
    The insurgents fighting against an occupying force that they don't appreciate are akin to Nazis?

    Godwin was right.
    We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
    --Oscar Wilde

  14. #43
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: New Pope elected

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful
    The insurgents fighting against an occupying force that they don't appreciate are akin to Nazis?

    Godwin was right.
    Are you defending the insurgents? Do you think they have a just cause? Tell us more. Why didn't you say something when "The Pope was a Hitler Youth" was stated. Didn't that bother you too? Or are you only bothered when insurgents are compared to German soldiers (not Nazis.... those were not the words used by me).

    Both kill indiscriminately. They even kill their own people. Both wanted to commit genocide to certain groups of people. Fighting a lost cause... both.

    Tell us why you think the insurgents are justified in their actions. You have already stated that an occupying force has caused them to fight. Tell us more.

    And God Bless our soldiers who try to rid the world of these murderers in Iraq.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.


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