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Thread: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

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    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    Apr 25, 2005 - 06:15 PM


    Work Comp Donations to Arnold Paying Off

    by Douglas Heller

    The state's workers' compensation insurers have reaped a windfall in the wake of Arnold's workers' compensation law signed last year, according to new insurance industry data made public at a California Dep't of Insurance hearing today. Only 45 cents of every dollar California businesses paid in premium in 2004 was used to cover claims of injured workers. The most recent national average was almost 73 cents of every dollar. That dramatic difference means overpriced policies for businesses and adds up to huge profits for insurance companies in California.

    Last year, Arnold refused to consider regulation of insurance companies while pushing his workers' comp bill. And just as the gov was facing pressure to regulate insurers as part of a legislative solution, he received a $100K donation from American Financial Group -- one of the largest workers' comp insurers in California. That always helps a politician figure out what he believes. In total, he received more than $550,000 from workers' comp insurers before he signed the law.

    And now that Arnold's bill is paying off for insurers, American Financial Group and its Great American Insurance subsidiary are writing checks. Last month AFG's chairman, Carl Lindner, hosted a fundraiser for Arnold in Cincinnati and donated another $279,200 this year to Arnold and his various campaigns.

    Lindner, who owns major league baseball's Cincinnati Reds -- the Reds' stadium is even named Great American Ballpark after Lindner's insurance co. -- hit a homerun with the money he paid to get Arnold on the company team.

    http://arnoldwatch.org/blogs/blogs_000701.php3


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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    Douglas Heller, the writer of the above. A Michael Moore wannabe (perhaps we have some of those here too?)... make no doubt about that. He came out w/ his own version of Fahrenheit 9-11 (later of course b/c he is a wannabe). Guess what this forgettable movie was about... a documentary that investigates the ways in which the civil liberties of American citizens and immigrants have been rolled back since September 11 and the Patriot Act. I ask you, RZ readers... what civil liberties have you lost since 9-11? Enough to make a movie (if you have noticed any great civil liberty losses)? Consider the source, friends, consider the source.

    Question... has Carl Lindner done anything illegal?? Has he in regard to this breaking story? Has Arnold done anything illegal?

    Next!!
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    Duranie Ho, Ho, Ho! KittyDuran's Avatar
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    Re: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966
    Douglas Heller, the writer of the above. A Michael Moore wannabe (perhaps we have some of those here too?)... make no doubt about that. He came out w/ his own version of Fahrenheit 9-11 (later of course b/c he is a wannabe). Guess what this forgettable movie was about... a documentary that investigates the ways in which the civil liberties of American citizens and immigrants have been rolled back since September 11 and the Patriot Act. I ask you, RZ readers... what civil liberties have you lost since 9-11? Enough to make a movie (if you have noticed any great civil liberty losses)? Consider the source, friends, consider the source.

    Question... has Carl Lindner done anything illegal?? Has he in regard to this breaking story? Has Arnold done anything illegal?

    Next!!
    Instead of attacking the writer, the source, how about addressing the issue [if there is one?]. Thanks!
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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    Quote Originally Posted by KittyDuran
    Instead of attacking the writer, the source, how about addressing the issue [if there is one?]. Thanks!
    The writer/source is always important when reading IMO. It can tell you a lot about the article. It is called biased opinion. I too may be biased in the opinions of others. As a matter of fact I believe I have been called this more than once here at RZ.

    If you know nothing about the source, then you may believe the information without "considering that source". It always importnat to consider the source of information that is political. Especially if it is political. And this is case in point. Joseph Heller is a... don't think I can say it in terms that are acceptable here at RZ.

    If people of the world did not consider sources, then Jospeh Goebbels may have been more successful with his words during the late 1930's and early 1940's.

    Kitty... has Lindner or Arnold done anything illegal? I asked that question for a reason. And if it has something to do with morals, per Heller, then I suggest we learn much more about Douglas Heller and how he feels about morality.

    I am not attacking. I am stating my opinion on the writer of the article. The same as he does about Arnold and Lindner. What is good for Heller is good for me.

    I think it more than fair to discuss the writer of an article and his possible slants. Just as important as the article itself (it not more important).
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    Duranie Ho, Ho, Ho! KittyDuran's Avatar
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    Re: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    The writer/source is always important when reading IMO. It can tell you a lot about the article. It is called biased opinion. I too may be biased in the opinions of others. As a matter of fact I believe I have been called this more than once here at RZ.
    ALL opinions are biased - everyone has an agenda...RBA has one and you have one - usually on the opposite of each other - both carting out the same tired arguments. What I WANT is some discussion about the legality/repercussions of what's going on in CA. What is, if there is any, recourse for employees that this is happening to? Could it happen in OH? Is it happening in other states - are there bills waiting to pass in any state? Will Lindner push for this legislation in the State of OH - that would affect employees at the GABP and Great American Insurance? Are there other insurance companies looking into what Great American has done in CA? IF it is political - are there any democrats supporting this measure? How many politicians are getting kickbacks from this legislation? Will this legislation cut back on frauduant (sp?) claims? Was this legislation the product of those claims? Could there have been other means of solving the problem if that was the reason for the measure?
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    Re: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    Many politicians and corporations never do anything illegal. But does that give them a free pass on everything they do? If it's wrong, it's wrong, wheter it's LEGAL or not.

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    Re: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    I think it more than fair to discuss the writer of an article and his possible slants. Just as important as the article itself (it not more important).
    So the source of the news is potentially more important than the news? Then why bother reading anything? Just look at the author's name, and you'll know whether or not to agree or disagree. Wow, that's easy! What a great way to stay informed.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedBloodedAmerican
    Many politicians and corporations never do anything illegal. But does that give them a free pass on everything they do? If it's wrong, it's wrong, wheter it's LEGAL or not.
    You mean like Whitewater? I understand. Sounds like a moral argument to me in this case. Like the "Let Terri Schiavo Live" people were saying. They tasted reality in the end. Morals & laws. Two distinctly different things. Ask the "Let Terri Schiavo Live" backers.

    California has some of the most liberal laws in the land. Weren't they one of the first to pass "legalize pot" laws? Weren't a lot of gay marriages (not legal) being performed in this state?

    Could this be ANOTHER article that has Heller attacking the new Repub governor (Heller? NAH!!). Or is this about attacking the bigtime Repub supporter, Carl Lindner. Or perhaps Heller never attacks anyone and is fair and impartial? Oh... I think I am getting warmer! Google up good ol' Heller and his articles. Look out Michael Moore... someone is trying to steal your thunder and the thunder that made you are a very rich man.

    Heller wearin' an MSU cap yet?
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    Re: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    I don't get the connection to "liberal laws" "gay marriage" "legalized pot" and the actions of Carl Lindner's company and the California Governor. I find more parellels with the fleecing of Califonia by the Energy Companies like Enron. Looks to be another case of corportations skirting the laws for their own profits.

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    Re: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    Lindner pays both sides. He is an equal opportunity wheel greaser.
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    Re: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    1966, I am conservative, too, maybe even more- just don't like the Republicans. But corp[orations are heading towards a new way of dealing with workplace injuries- instead of actually striving to make the workplace safer, thet are using a behavior-based outlook- any injury is caused by the behavior of an employee. An example (yes, it is extreme and kinda implausible) is if a giant hole opened up in a common walkway and an employee walked into it and fell, it is the fault of the employee as they used incorrect behavior, and most injuries are cause for discipline. I was once threatened with possible termination due to an injury. That injury was being hit with a mallet flying through the air! I was actually told if I was where I was supposewd to be, it wouldn't have happened. To this day, I can't be sure if it was a joke due to the nature of that supervisor. Yes, most accidents, or at least many, are caused by poor decisions by the injured, but this is management trying to avoid the cost of a safer workplace. I hope you are in a workplace that doesn't treat employees this way, but they are out there.

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    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    Actually, it's worse than that 919191.. I have a relative that got legitimately hurt on the job.. the relative was too scared to report it, because it is well known that anyone who makes a workman's comp claim gets laid off within 6 months or so. Yes, it's illegal, but they get away with it.

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    Re: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966
    You mean like Whitewater? I understand. Sounds like a moral argument to me in this case. Like the "Let Terri Schiavo Live" people were saying. They tasted reality in the end. Morals & laws. Two distinctly different things. Ask the "Let Terri Schiavo Live" backers.
    What does Michael Moore, Terri Schiavo, or Whitewater have to do with the subject of this tread? Dam the logic, full spleen ahead.

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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    Quote Originally Posted by 919191
    1966, I am conservative, too, maybe even more- just don't like the Republicans. But corporations are heading towards a new way of dealing with workplace injuries-
    No problem with that. Be sure to read more than a Heller article to get the "whole story" (Far. 9-11... truth or not? depends on who you ask). And I do not think it is fair to say "corporations"... as in all companies. I also wonder if Heller has ever written a negative column about a Dem politician?

    But Heller aside, I wonder how much corporations feel the need to fight? Fight, I say. Why? How many people, with the help of lawyers (gee, who do they politically support?), have taken advantage of "the system"?

    I know some here think all corporations are evil. I like to look at the other side too. One of my best friends is the office manager for a Workman's Compensation (W.C.) clinic. They handle nothing but W.C. cases. Real hard to prove a "bad back" sometimes... from the doctor's side. And if the doctor feels that the case is baloney... it is easier for them to just sign-off on the injury than it is to say no. If the doctor says no, then there may be court proceedings and they might face a lawsuit too. Does this happen in the real world? You had better believe your bad back.

    Is it too easy to fake an injury and get paid to stay home? I know what my friend tells me. I wonder if Heller has ever been to a W.C. clinic or talked to people who work at one? I do not believe that all corporations are evil. I also do not think that all corporations are fair.

    And I'd venture to guess that CA has a lot more fradulant W.C. cases than most states based on per capita. Just a guess, but one that I feel safe in stating. Wonder why?

    Now... how much money did attornies (like the ones who represent W.C. cases... real or not) gave to politicians in CA? Would that be the same sort of thing as Carl giving to Arnold? Are Carl's donations only b/c of this W.C. law? Does Heller have proof of that or is that what Heller wants the reader to insinuate from his less-than-the-whole-truth writing? Should we check all of Carl's political donations and see if they all go to those who make what is perceived as favorable to him decisions? Lots of insinuations going on in that article. But it is Heller... keep that in mind.
    Last edited by RedFanAlways1966; 04-26-2005 at 02:52 PM.
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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Lindner fleecing California with Arnold's help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman
    What does Michael Moore, Terri Schiavo, or Whitewater have to do with the subject of this tread? Dam the logic, full spleen ahead.
    Something about legalities vs. morals. Did you miss that in my post? Read it again and maybe you will catch that obvious comparison the 2nd time, friend.

    Let me try one more time... Some people thought it was wrong to pull a woman's feeding tube and let her die. However, it was legally done. Just like Carl's donations.

    Moore is Heller's idol IMO. Whitewater had something to w/ politicians. Cannot remember who, but non-politicians went to prison over it (read RBA's comment prior to my reference). But I forgot that Hillary is capable of turning $10K into $100K overnight w/ her investment knowledge. Get it now?

    Now I'll await your NY big city experience that will somehow try to refute my arguments. Full spleen ahead!

    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.


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