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Thread: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

  1. #1
    RZ Chamber of Commerce Unassisted's Avatar
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    Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    This judge certainly delivers a blunt assessment of the situation. Seems like this nomination epitomizes the conflict in the Senate over judicial nominations.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...home-headlines
    Faith 'War' Rages in U.S., Judge Says

    A Bush nominee central to the Senate's judicial controversy criticizes secular humanists.

    By Peter Wallsten
    Times Staff Writer

    April 26, 2005

    WASHINGTON — Just days after a bitterly divided Senate committee voted along party lines to approve her nomination as a federal appellate court judge, California Supreme Court Justice Janice Rogers Brown told an audience Sunday that people of faith were embroiled in a "war" against secular humanists who threatened to divorce America from its religious roots, according to a newspaper account of the speech.

    Brown's remarks come as a partisan battle over judges has evolved into a national debate over the proper mix of God and government and as Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) ponders changing the chamber's rules to prevent Democrats from using procedural moves to block confirmation of conservative jurists such as Brown.

    Her comments to a gathering of Roman Catholic legal professionals in Darien, Conn., came on the same day as "Justice Sunday: Stop the Filibuster Against People of Faith," a program produced by evangelical leaders and simulcast on the Internet and in homes and churches around the country. It was designed to paint opponents of Bush's judicial nominees as intolerant of believers.

    Though unrelated to that program, Brown's remarks sounded similar themes.

    "There seems to have been no time since the Civil War that this country was so bitterly divided. It's not a shooting war, but it is a war," she said, according to a report published Monday in the Stamford Advocate.

    "These are perilous times for people of faith," she said, "not in the sense that we are going to lose our lives, but in the sense that it will cost you something if you are a person of faith who stands up for what you believe in and say those things out loud."

    A spokeswoman for the California Supreme Court, Lynn Holton, said no text was available because "it was a talk, not a speech." Brown's office did not dispute the newspaper's account.

    The Advocate quoted Brown as lamenting that America had moved away from the religious traditions on which it was founded.

    "When we move away from that, we change our whole conception of the most significant idea that America has to offer, which is this idea of human freedom and this notion of liberty," she said.

    She added that atheism "handed human destiny over to the great god, autonomy, and this is quite a different idea of freedom…. Freedom then becomes willfulness."

    Brown's remarks drew praise Monday from one of the nation's most prominent evangelical leaders, Gary Bauer, president of the socially conservative advocacy group American Values.

    "No wonder the radical left opposes her," Bauer wrote in an e-mail to supporters. "Janice Rogers Brown understands the great culture war raging in America. That is why the abortion crowd, the homosexual rights movement and the radical secularists are all demanding that Senate liberals block her confirmation."

    Brown was first nominated by President Bush in 2003 to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, an appointment considered a steppingstone to the U.S. Supreme Court. She has emerged as one of the president's most controversial judicial nominees — and one of the conservative movement's favorite examples of Democratic delays.

    The nominations of Brown and nine other conservatives have been central to a bitter fight that both sides view as a precursor to an ideological brawl over replacing Supreme Court Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, who has cancer.

    Democrats blocked Brown's confirmation by the full Senate, charging that she held extremist views that interfere with her ability to render objective judgments. She has a history of delivering provocative speeches.

    Democrats have questioned speeches in which she called the New Deal the "triumph of our socialist revolution." She has described herself as a "true conservative" who believes that "where the government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates…. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."

    Questioned in 2003 about her comments, Brown conceded that she was blunt when addressing conservative audiences.

    "I don't have a speechwriter," she said. "I do these myself. And it speaks for itself."

    As the article describing Brown's remarks was circulated Monday on websites and in e-mails, one advocacy group opposing Bush's nominees charged that her remarks were a timely reminder of why the California judge should not be promoted.

    "It's so shocking that in the middle of this battle she would say such extraordinarily intemperate things," said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State.

    Brown's comments came at a breakfast following the Red Mass, an annual spring gathering of lawyers, judges and other legal professionals sponsored by the Roman Catholic Diocese of Bridgeport, Conn.

    In previous years, speakers at the diocese's breakfast have included former appellate Judge Robert Bork, whose nomination to the Supreme Court was defeated by the Senate in 1987, and Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia.

    Two religious leaders who heard Brown speak Sunday had only praise. The Rev. Michael R. Moynihan, pastor of a church in Greenwich, Conn., and an organizer of the Red Mass, said he was impressed with Brown.

    "She caused all of us to reflect more profoundly on the intersection between law and morality, and on the role of religion in shaping those virtues and values, which are crucial to our democratic way of life," said Bishop William E. Lori, the head of the Bridgeport diocese, who invited Brown to address the group.
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  3. #2
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Nothing wrong with her comments. It is too bad that people of faith sometimes are made out to be evil. I was under the impression that most religious people are the furthest thing from evil. Of course all crowds have bad apples. However, she does not seem to be a pedophile priest or anything of the sort. So why is she so bad? Religion... such a terrible thing. Has she ever made a ruling in which religion was the sole basis for her decision? I'd love to see these "advocacy groups" show some proof of that. Or the fact that she states that she is religious and that she attends church... is that all these "advocacy groups" need? If so, that is pathetic and EXTREME.

    Anyhow... I wonder how many voters in this great country are also religious or attend a church on a regular basis? Seems as though these "advocacy groups" can do more damage to the Democrats than good. Issue 1 here in Ohio (gay marriage) seemed to bring a lot of religious types to the polls. And talk like this can cause more religious people to cast their votes.

    So has this lady done anything wrong by making these comments? Not as far as I can tell. But doing wrong may be more "extremist type behavior" on the other side which will drive more people to the voting stations. Like I said... issue 1 in Ohio. Like it or not, vote for it or not... it seemed to work. Religion is still a powerful thing when it comes to getting votes.
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    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    The article was written by Peter Wallsten. Thats all I need to know, this is pure crap. Wallsten is a Rush Limbaugh wannabe, and no one can take anything he writes seriously. This article is therefore clearly biased and leaves out facts, facts relevant to whatever the article is about.

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    Pagan/Asatru Ravenlord's Avatar
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    am i the only person who can have faith but be able to divorce it from politics?
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    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenlord
    am i the only person who can have faith but be able to divorce it from politics?
    No, that's (supposedly) the foundation of this entire country.

    These are perilous times for people of faith," she said, "not in the sense that we are going to lose our lives, but in the sense that it will cost you something if you are a person of faith who stands up for what you believe in and say those things out loud.
    Absolute bollocks. I'm a Christian, and have been open with my faith to many people--never once have I ever felt I was "costing something" by doing it. The paranoia from the evangelical Christian right is fueling this entire "debate."

    I get sick of seeing all these "people of faith" attempting to paint themselves as victims of some sort of culture war.

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    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    It is too bad that people of faith sometimes are made out to be evil.
    Sometimes they are evil. Hiding behind their faith makes them even more evil in my book.

    I get sick of seeing all these "people of faith" attempting to paint themselves as victims of some sort of culture war.
    In my experience, certain types of people love to feel persecuted, like they are the underdogs, like the world is against them and their faith is the only thing keeping them going. Some people need to invent that kind of drama to feel good about themselves.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    In my experience, certain types of people love to feel persecuted, like they are the underdogs, like the world is against them.... Some people need to invent that kind of drama to feel good about themselves.
    Like this guy?

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    CELEBRATION TIME RBA's Avatar
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    Sometimes they are evil. Hiding behind their faith makes them even more evil in my book.



    In my experience, certain types of people love to feel persecuted, like they are the underdogs, like the world is against them and their faith is the only thing keeping them going. Some people need to invent that kind of drama to feel good about themselves.
    Beware of Wolves in Sheeps clothing.

    I have learned through the years this is sound advice.

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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis

    Absolute bollocks.
    iIs it ok to say "bollocks" here?

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    MarsArmyGirl RosieRed's Avatar
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    The Advocate quoted Brown as lamenting that America had moved away from the religious traditions on which it was founded.

    "When we move away from that, we change our whole conception of the most significant idea that America has to offer, which is this idea of human freedom and this notion of liberty," she said.
    I really don't understand what she's trying to say here. That we need religion in order to maintain the idea of human freedom? I don't get it.

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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by RosieRed
    I really don't understand what she's trying to say here. That we need religion in order to maintain the idea of human freedom? I don't get it.
    Perhaps the wording is based on the audience. The audience was not a bunch of atheists or gays, but the Roman Catholic legal professionals. For those not familiar with this technique... see Pres. Bill Clinton.

    However, that is coming from The Advocate. The Advocate, for those who do not know, is a Gay & Lesbian news magazine. So perhaps their "story" is a bit biased. Not sure b/c I do not read their news. But I doubt that The Advocate has much good to say about any church-related speech or anyone perceived as a conservative. Whatcha think, Puffy? Tell us about The Advocate. I am sure you are familiar with them and their writings, since you seem familiar with Wallsten. Do tell.
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  13. #12
    MarsArmyGirl RosieRed's Avatar
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966
    Perhaps the wording is based on the audience. The audience was not a bunch of atheists or gays, but the Roman Catholic legal professionals. For those not familiar with this technique... see Pres. Bill Clinton.
    I don't care who she was talking to; I still don't understand the comment.

  14. #13
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by RosieRed
    I don't care who she was talking to; I still don't understand the comment.
    Neither do I. Human freedom and liberty do not depend on a foundation in religion in order to prosper.

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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by RosieRed
    I don't care who she was talking to; I still don't understand the comment.
    Seems like her audience understood it. And it sounds like they like it and her other comments. I am sure that was her goal. Sounds like she accomplished her goal. She spoke to "her audience that day". Her audience is not RZ.

    Probably bull anyhow. Puffy says so.
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    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    Neither do I. Human freedom and liberty do not depend on a foundation in religion in order to prosper.
    With all due respect.... you say you too do not understand the comment and then you give your definition of what the comment means.

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