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Thread: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

  1. #61
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Nov '04 showed what? The Godless Democrats lost to the God backed Republicans? I don't understand?

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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by RedBloodedAmerican
    Nov '04 showed what? The Godless Democrats lost to the God backed Republicans? I don't understand?
    Nov. '04 showed that people trusted Bush (for whatever reason) slightly more on terrorism than they trusted Kerry.

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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    This speech seems totally inappropriate to me. I don't know what law applies to this situation but in New York, a sitting judge is prohibited from engaging in any political activity or even attending political gatherings. Code of Jud.Con., Canon 5 McK.Consol.Laws, Book 29 App.

    Yes, a judge does (and should) give up certain freedoms. Judges are not only prohibited from being biased, they are prohibited from even showing any indication or appearance of bias. In other words if you want to be a judge, you have to refrain from giving political speeches. If you don't want to give up this right, don't be a judge. ( Totally unrelated, but how bright is it for someone in Brown's situation to give a speech like this?)

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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman
    I don't know what law applies to this situation but in New York, a sitting judge is prohibited from engaging in any political activity or even attending political gatherings. Code of Jud.Con., Canon 5 McK.Consol.Laws, Book 29 App.
    A gathering of Roman Catholic legal professionals. Not political. As a matter of fact, it seems as though a NY judge can speak at the same event w/out violating the above code.

    The U.S. Constitution applies to all U.S. citizens. There are some areas that are not covered: yelling fire in a public place, shark at the beach. And if you know a certain guideline, like the above NY code, then it is not covered either. Pete Rose talking to gamblers while still in MLB may not be covered.

    Judge Brown did nothing wrong. You might not like what she said, but she did nothing wrong.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by RedBloodedAmerican
    Nov '04 showed what? The Godless Democrats lost to the God backed Republicans? I don't understand?
    A funny thing... I personally know 3 Dems who attend church regularly. I also know lots of Repubs who go to church for weddings only. So your stereotyping does not work with me. The elitist-leftist rhetoric did not work in Nov. 2004.

    Just ask Michael Moore. CAUTION: Do not believe everything (anything?) that he may tell you!
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966
    A gathering of Roman Catholic legal professionals. Not political. As a matter of fact, it seems as though a NY judge can speak at the same event w/out violating the above code.

    The U.S. Constitution applies to all U.S. citizens. There are some areas that are not covered: yelling fire in a public place, shark at the beach. And if you know a certain guideline, like the above NY code, then it is not covered either. Pete Rose talking to gamblers while still in MLB may not be covered.

    Judge Brown did nothing wrong. You might not like what she said, but she did nothing wrong.
    You seem to have no problem with Judges making impassioned speeches regarding their personal views on sensitive topics, so let's look at it another way:

    Suppose you were an evangelical Christian who was arrested for disturbing the peace by loudly preaching from a streetcorner. You end up fighting the case all the way to the Ohio Supreme Court. One of the Ohio Supreme Court Justices is Judge Johnson. Judge Johnson is a notorious atheist--just the week before your court date he made an impassioned speech before the National Atheists Conference about how Christians and other religious folk are destroying the foundation of America, and how much he has a disdain for them. In addition to the public speeches Judge Johnson has made, he has also issued opinion after opinion--frequently as the lone dissenter on the Court--against religion and its followers, and his decisions are often cited as pushing the reasonable boundaries of interpretation of the law.

    Knowing these things, as a Christian, would you feel comfortable presenting your case before Judge Johnson? Would you feel that Judge Johnson can be unbiased and impartial in matters concerning religion? Would his public speeches repeatedly denouncing religion and its followers instill confidence in you that he will listen to you case with an open mind?

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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966
    A funny thing... I personally know 3 Dems who attend church regularly. I also know lots of Repubs who go to church for weddings only. So your stereotyping does not work with me. The elitist-leftist rhetoric did not work in Nov. 2004.
    I think that was his point...

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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    You seem to have no problem with Judges making impassioned speeches regarding their personal views on sensitive topics, so let's look at it another way
    How do I know it was impassioned? I guess it depends on your definition of impassioned (where have we this kind of talk before?). You are free to believe as you like (another freedom in this great country... like freedom of speech). I was not there for her speech and doubt that any of us here at RZ were. However, Judge Brown can speak freely outside of the courtroom. Could this whole thing be a moral issue with Dems? Funny how the world turns sometimes.

    I do not live in hypothetical worlds, so I cannot answer your question. I have never been arrested and never plan on being arrested. But in your hypothetical scenerio, I would hope the judge would dismiss himself from the case. That is what fair judges are expected to do.

    We must remember that judges are humans too. They are not machines. I sometimes wonder if some citizens think judges should not be allowed to vote or attend religious ceremonies. Judges can hurt their future for speaking a certain way... they have to be careful. I never imagined a world where people might think judges should not have religious beliefs, believe in God or be able to talk about their religious beliefs. Sounds like that is where some of the writers of these articles want it. Our country, IIRC, was originally founded by the 1st Euro-types b/c they wanted the ability to have religious freedom. Now it seems, nearly 400 years later, that people in this country want certain U.S. citizens to be restricted when it comes to religion. My, oh my...
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    I think that was his point...
    Perhaps, but a mind-reader I am not. His point may have also been to shove words in my mouth. But, like I said, I cannot read minds. Nowhere has it been said that all Dems are atheists. For all I know some atheists may be Repubs.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    I would hope the judge would dismiss himself from the case. That is what fair judges are expected to do.
    Would you expect Judge Brown to recuse herself from Establishment Clause cases?

    BTW, Government employees do face certain political restrictions. The most famous is the Hatch Act.

    Hatch Act
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  12. #71
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Also, there is the Judical Code of Conduct.

    http://www.uscourts.gov/guide/vol2/ch1.html

    I realize I'm quoting out of context, but Canon 2A says:

    Canon 2A. Public confidence in the judiciary is eroded by irresponsible or improper conduct by judges. A judge must avoid all impropriety and appearance of impropriety. A judge must expect to be the subject of constant public scrutiny. A judge must therefore accept restrictions that might be viewed as burdensome by the ordinary citizen and should do so freely and willingly.

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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966
    A gathering of Roman Catholic legal professionals. Not political. As a matter of fact, it seems as though a NY judge can speak at the same event w/out violating the above code.

    The U.S. Constitution applies to all U.S. citizens. There are some areas that are not covered: yelling fire in a public place, shark at the beach. And if you know a certain guideline, like the above NY code, then it is not covered either. Pete Rose talking to gamblers while still in MLB may not be covered.

    Judge Brown did nothing wrong. You might not like what she said, but she did nothing wrong.
    This is exactly the kind of gathering that a sitting judge should not appear at. And if you define this speech as not being political, your definition of politics is different than most peoples. The bottom line is that even if reasonable people would disagree as to whether these remarks are "political" , proper judicial conduct requires that a sitting judge should err on the side of discretion when there might be even an appearance of inpropiety. And its irrelevant whether I agree with her comments or not, she shouldn't have made them.

    Saying "the U.S. Constitution applies to all U.S. citizens" is meaningless. We all give up certan rights in certain contexts. I love to use vulger language and make personal attacks on certain people, but I choose to give up those rights if I appear on Redzone. Likewise, at least the New York legisgature (and I suspect it is the same in most states) has decided that if you want to be a jugde you have to give up your normal rights to make political speeches and attend political gatherings, a decision which was made for obvious reasons. This is pretty basic.And while a judge who is a candidate for popular election should be allowed to speak on on the issues, but that is not the case here.

    What Brown did was wrong, probably violated an applicable judicial cannon, and , under the circumstances, it was stupid.

  14. #73
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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    I appreciate the acts and codes. But the interpretation is wide-open for discussion. Judge Brown's latest comments... not bad IMO. Not in violation IMO. Of course I do not subscribe to The Advocate and my name is not Wellstone or Zimmerman.

    We shall see if the higher-ups find her in violation. It will be interesting to see how they interpret Judge Brown's comments. I guess we shall wait and see.

    Thanks to all for the good and friendly debate.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo
    Would you expect Judge Brown to recuse herself from Establishment Clause cases?

    BTW, Government employees do face certain political restrictions. The most famous is the Hatch Act.

    Hatch Act

    Great point. Many many years ago I was a VISTA. (For you younger folks it was like the domestic peace corps. I was prohibited by the Hatch Act from various types of political activity.

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    Re: Judge Says There is a "Faith War" in the US

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966
    I do not live in hypothetical worlds, so I cannot answer your question. I have never been arrested and never plan on being arrested. But in your hypothetical scenerio, I would hope the judge would dismiss himself from the case. That is what fair judges are expected to do.
    But why would it not be fair if he stayed on the case? Is there something in the information I provided which would make you think that he would be biased against people of faith?


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