4/30 Game Thread: CIN vs MIL

[traderumor]

No offense, but I think you're missing the point.

I'm not "romanticizing" Bowden's tenure, because I think he was awful and I do realize that he was part of what put the organization in the place it is at now, but I was just trying to illustrate that he at least tried to do something to light some fire under the team when it performed as poorly as this team has lately.

I'm not saying the moves he made helped the team become good or anything, but at least he tried to shake things up a little bit.

NO offense taken, but I got the point you were trying to make, and I contend that kind of stuff doesn't really change anything when things are in this bad of shape. When Sparky moved Rose to third and inserted Foster in left, that was a shakeup, and it turned a pretty darn good team into an all-time great team. Here, we are talking about problems that have deep roots. Sure, you can start the bus on the Louisville shuttle, and maybe you'll have some short term success, but then the guys you bring up were in AAA for a reason, so the truth doesn't take very long to come out. We're talking about cancer with the Reds pitching situation, and shaking things up in that manner is little more than giving the patient sugar pills. You really want to shake things up? Pay whatever it costs in talent to get one good pitcher. Just go get one good pitcher. Then, we'll go from there.

[CincyRedsFan30]

NO offense taken, but I got the point you were trying to make, and I contend that kind of stuff doesn't really change anything when things are in this bad of shape. When Sparky moved Rose to third and inserted Foster in left, that was a shakeup, and it turned a pretty darn good team into an all-time great team. Here, we are talking about problems that have deep roots. Sure, you can start the bus on the Louisville shuttle, and maybe you'll have some short term success, but then the guys you bring up were in AAA for a reason, so the truth doesn't take very long to come out. We're talking about cancer with the Reds pitching situation, and shaking things up in that manner is little more than giving the patient sugar pills. You really want to shake things up? Pay whatever it costs in talent to get one good pitcher. Just go get one good pitcher. Then, we'll go from there.

I agree with you on all of this.

However, I'd rather see O'Brien trying something than to do nothing at all but sitting around watching this team lose game after game after game.

[RosieRed]

Sorry guys.

[traderumor]

Sorry guys.

That's OK, I'm the jinx. I started Wednesday's thread and then everything was fine until I started watching today.

[traderumor]

I agree with you on all of this.

However, I'd rather see O'Brien trying something than to do nothing at all but sitting around watching this team lose game after game after game.

It is frustrating knowing that he is unlikely to try and do anything about it. I mean, if I were calling the shots, I would reward Keisler for a good spring and very good showing in AAA so far and switch he and Valentine. Coffey is likely gone with Ortiz coming back tomorrow. But the real change is major surgery to keep the cancer from spreading. I'm afraid we needed to see that when he took over if he were going to go that route. What did we get? "Pitching to contact," which as M2 so eloquently put last season, is "pitching to disaster." We need radiation, DanO, you have given us placebos.

[Bam-Bam]

After following this team my whole life, and living thru the slow torture of the last few years. I am convinced if there was a one game win you're in the playoff's situation. We would not make it if we had to beat the cubs, brewers, or astros. And I don't think we'll even show up if we had to play the cardinals!!! I'll give us a 50-50 chance against the pirates. After watching that game today and pretty much all year, you never feel good till the games over. You know no lead is safe and when we're down and have runner in scoring position. You know LaRue will strike out and the pinch-hitter will groundout!!! The sad part is we can't beat the brewers now, what's going to happen when all their prospects come up from AAA(Weeks, Fielder, Hart, Nelson).

[balk]

And how did that work out? Did it help? Do we now have better pitchers using that method? Were many of these hacks either brought here by Bowden or are the types that he would have brought here were he still the man?

I think DanO's abilities to find pitching is brought into question as he is repeating the same mistakes that got Bowden fired, but please don't romanticize his tenure considering that joker of a GM is highly responsible for this mess of an organization, esp. the pitching mess...

Milton, Ortiz, Harang, Claussen, Valentine, Belisle, Weathers, Weber are post-Bowden pickups.

Wilson, Graves, Wagner and Coffey are Bowden.

Not sure of the conclusion to draw. All I know is......we didn't get the return we should have for Williamson and Boone, which were both post-Bowden and pre-OB trades.