But you are also getting a pitching prospect in return and maybe two depending on the lower level prospect. So how is that hurting the Reds Pitching. Yes Claussen has only given up 2 runs in his last 9 plus innings but teams are hitting over .300 against him, he walks almost as many as he strikes out and gives up more hits than innings pitched. You are also getting a hitter would can play any place on the infield and can hit for power. Which can open up more trades for more pitching.
It kind of depends on the other pitching prospect that you speak of. Claussen is better then Hudgins and Coffey is likely better than the other pitching prospect. That is how it hurts the pitching. If it is true that Graves can net Hudgins, then the deal is really Kinsler and a pitching prospect for Claussen and Coffey. Not a bad trade, but I think Claussen is being under valued here. He has been fairly decent htis year. with more experience I expect him to be one of our better pitchers which I am not willing to give up to get a middle infielder which isn't really a neccessity.
Giants wanted a solid bullpen guy-So they trade for the HAWK ( he;s not even closer with Tyler Walker lisited as there closer)-Would you given anything to have both the young pitchers the Cubs made out with.Graves or Wagner of combnation with someone else could have fetch those 2 young arms.
Last edited by Royals Fan; 05-28-2005 at 11:33 PM.
To be fair to the witless, I don't think anyone will give anything of value for Graves. He's completely done as a major league ball player and anyone with a scouting department knows it.
Besdies, Auriilia is coming back to start at SS soon and Dan O has told them all to focus more over the next 40 games so we should be fine.
Here is a little more, somewhat dated information to add to the speculation. On Thursday evening, Rotoworld predicted that Graves would not make it to free agency, but would be dealt to one of a number of teams that included the Rangers, Cubs, Rockies, Marlins, and Red Sox. The Giants were not mentioned, which should comfort those concerned that Latroy Hawkins stole the Reds' chance of dealing Graves.
Per Rotoworld:
Reds GM Dan O'Brien said that ''multiple teams'' had expressed interest ''to varying degrees'' in trading for Danny Graves.
It's very unlikely that Graves will become a free agent after being designated for assignment three days ago. The Rangers, Cubs, Rockies, Marlins and Red Sox are among the teams that are believed to have engaged in trade talks with the Reds.
W L ERA G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO
2 2 3.00 7 7 1 0 39.0 38 14 13 2 13 31
By the looks of his stats he would be a nice adition for the Reds so I say hurry and make this deal tomorrow.
I can spell,I just can't type!!
If you could get a projectible middlie infielder like Kinsler and a back-end option like Hudgins- even without a third prospect included- for Graves/Claussen/Coffey, you do it.Originally Posted by Austin Kearns
The problem with Claussen is that he's not the Brandon Claussen we thought the Reds were trading for. Frankly, I'm positive the Reds know this. And I'm pretty sure the Rangers do as well. So, no one's getting a guy like Kinsler included in a deal for three suspects.
You really have to understand how bad Claussen has been this season:
18.3 Pitches per IP
<5.0 IP per Start (even if he didn't get hit in the elbow with a batted ball, he'd still be right at 5.0 IP per start)
1.74 WHIP
.380 OBP Against, .478 SLG Against- .858 OPS Against
An .855 OPS Against would have ranked 82nd among 87 ERA Qualifiers last season. Among all MLB players who've thrown a pitch in 2005, Claussen ranks 346th.
It's that bad.
His HR rate is bad. His K rate has actually decreased from last season. If he were throwing 92-93 MPH, I'd have a much easier time watching and waiting on the guy. But as it is, if you have a real value deal staring you in the face you have to pull the trigger because he's doing nothing that can't easily be replaced.
But again, unless we expect Texas to be dumber than they were last season (wouldn't give up Kinsler period), we'll have to hope that Claussen will regain that 5-7 MPH he's currently missing. And, if he does, I only hope he can help the rest of our arms find the velocity they're missing as well.
"The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer
"The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
--Ted Williams
One theory about Claussen's "lost" velocity is that he mis-rehabed his arm while in the Yankee system and never has regained the arm strength he should have.
Claussen similiarly struggled in AAA last year to June after losing 5mph(on average) with the fastball. By Augest he was starting to show signs of topping out 91-92 instead of 88-89 though his control and stamina were rundown. Now why would he gain 2-3mph of velocity in a month?
My guess GM'S are playing chicken right now,We have seen the big trade today with the Hawk heading to SF.Chicago Cubs are in need of some bullpen help with Borwoski injury prone and Texas bullpen is in shabbles.
I guess O'Brien rather deal with his old Boss John Hart than with a inner- dvision team like the Cubs.
My bet Graves will be dealt to the Rangers for John Hudgkins( who's not on there 40 man roster per the Dallas paper) and the Reds picking up the 5M price tag.
Or Outside Chance
to the Cubs for John Leiscaster and reds pick the same price tag.
to the Marlins for Lansing Koneig and the Reds pay the Graves salary
to the Nationals for either Zach Day or Claudio Vargas- paying half Danny's salary.
My guess GM'S are playing chicken right now,We have seen the big trade today with the Hawk heading to SF.Chicago Cubs are in need of some bullpen help with Borwoski injury prone and Texas bullpen is in shabbles.
I guess O'Brien rather deal with his old Boss John Hart than with a inner- dvision team like the Cubs.
My bet Graves will be dealt to the Rangers for John Hudgkins( who's not on there 40 man roster per the Dallas paper) and the Reds picking up the 5M price tag.
Or Outside Chance
to the Cubs for John Leiscaster and reds pick the same price tag.
to the Marlins for Lansing Koneig and the Reds pay the Graves salary
to the Nationals for either Zach Day or Claudio Vargas- paying half Danny's salary.
Could this be something that Danny uses against the Reds. Just playing conspiracy theorist, wondering if an MRI would hurt his trade value, forcing the Reds to get literally nothing for him or making them look bad in some other way (as if they don't already).
I would throw in Claussen with Graves if I could get the Rangers 22 year old AAAer. It is called taking out unneeded parts.
This is getting nuts.
The Rangers will NOT trade any 22 year old AAA pitcher for Danny Graves, let alone Hudgins. If they do, Hart will be summarily fired. But he won't.
Best you can hope for is maybe a low quality A arm. There's just no way anyone is giving up anything of quality for Danny Graves.
Yes the Rangers will trade a young arm if they know other teams are interested in Graves (which they are). Especially the Cubs and a team they are battling for a playoff spot, the Boston Red Sox.
That would be stupid. You don't give up a young arm to get a young arm, you stockpile young arms.
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