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Thread: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

  1. #31
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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    I'm actually shocked at the degree of criticism this kid Lecure is getting for "failure" in academics. The immediate circuitry being built between academic sticktoitness and athletic sticktoitness is borderline absurd.

    My thinking is that many of those criticizing have never taught a class in their lives.

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  3. #32
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    I'm with FCB here, if the kid can pitch, I don't care if he can spell. Not with the state this organization is in at present.

    Championships for MY teams in my lifetime:
    Cincinnati Reds - 75, 76, 90
    Chicago Blackhawks - 10, 13
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    Chicago Bulls - 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98

  4. #33
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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    It's highly possible that he dropped or flunked a class and fell behind.
    One night he woke up in a cold sweat. He remembered he had signed up for a class but he never found the lecture hall or started his research project or studied for the final.

    What? Huh? That was my nightmare?

    (nevermind)
    Never overlook the obvious

  5. #34
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    I'm actually shocked at the degree of criticism this kid Lecure is getting for "failure" in academics. The immediate circuitry being built between academic sticktoitness and athletic sticktoitness is borderline absurd.

    My thinking is that many of those criticizing have never taught a class in their lives.
    Hey, I don't care if he's dumb as a rock if he can pitch well. But I do worry about the ADD thing, though. Is this something that's going to affect him while he's pitching? Is he going to be able to concentrate on the hitters and remember to back up 3rd or home when necessary? Is he going to be able to remember how he got someone out before? Is his mind going to wander when the bases are loaded and he has a 3-2 count on a batter? It may not be a big deal and he's probably not going to cost the Reds a bunch of money and we'll find out if this ADD problem is going to hamper him while he's in the minors.

    Since I have taught before and I work with students and advisors, I don't think I'm exactly standing on shaky ground here.
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  6. #35
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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R
    Hey, I don't care if he's dumb as a rock if he can pitch well. But I do worry about the ADD thing, though. Is this something that's going to affect him while he's pitching? Is he going to be able to concentrate on the hitters...
    OTOH, he may forget whatever Gullett told him to do before the Sheriff is back in the dugout...
    Never overlook the obvious

  7. #36
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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    You're on shaky ground Chip. Trust me on that. The ADD you see in teens and younger students is NOT the same as Adult ADD, its not some spastic kid unable to remember from moment to moment or hyperactive and unable to sit still. Most people with adult ADHD are highly creative, sensitive and intelligent. They are often found in creative type jobs, and in research sciences, where their rapid fire minds are an asset. There are definitely downsides, such as being very disorganized, seeming "spacey" or "absent minded" even though their mind IS working - at hyper speed. The mental health community has only become really aware of AADHD in the last 10 years or so. Before that adults with this dosorder were simply considered disorganized but bright in the best cases and "dreamers, irresponsible or flakes" in the worst cases. The concern over the ability to concentrate on the game at hand is so silly I almost had to laugh - none of you obviously have ADHD. One of the very curious, contradictory elements of an AAHD person is the ability to concentrate so extremely well that ohers feel they have "gone away". Reading, for instance, I become so exclusively concentrated on what I am reading I wouldn't hear you talking if you were standing right next to me - you'd have to nudge me or shake the paper in my hand to get my attention. It can ruin lives - and has, especially before it was better understand and clinician's began to study ways to help. Severe cases can require medications like Welbutrin on up to Ritalin etc. but most ADHD can greatly enrich their lives by simply earning about the disorder and making necessary adjustments. A secretary may take over the minute details of a salesman's day so that he can simply go out and sell, a field where ADHD adults also excel - many ADHD are very gregarious. In fact we tend to talk TOO much - as our brains race along. I've learned to listen for the sound of my own voice and now know when I'm beginning to talk too fast. Much of the problems associated with ADHD are controllable by the awareness of it and a concentrated effort to reign it in. It's often gentic and there are different tendencies among ADHD. Some are inward, the "loners" among us and others, like me, and probably Sam LeClure are outward - often too open with people for our own good. He needed an advisor who knew something about ADHD, but yes, with hundreds of students, it may have been difficult but seeing how much universities do for student athletes who DON'T have a clue and who don't have ADHD - like, as someone suggested, enrolling them in "golf 101" I find it incredulous Texas U didn't have people familiar with the needs of an ADHD student. As for his pitching ability - I GUARANTEE it won't affect his ability on the field. And yes, he better have coaches who keep on him about where to be, when to be there, etc. It's off the field LeClure will be frustrated and need help. I bit my tongue, or keyboard, if you will, throughout this discussion about LeClure but I can;t keep it in any longer. ADHD made my early life, in the twenties and thirties a shambles. I take full responsiblity for not learning how to handle it better then but I now really enjoy life and have become reasonably successful at controlling the negative things about ADHD (okay I may talk your ear off if you ever met me). The positives, empathy for others, ability to deeply concentrate on things I enjoy (btw, a person with ADHD's ability to hyper-concentrate is highly dependent on their enjoyment of what they are involved in, for instance I can;t suddenly begin concentrating on higher math or something like that because I don't enjoy it much - makes my mind begin to go all over the place). In terms of Sam LeCure and baseball I think his greatest trouble may come when he has several rough outings - ADHD also tend toward depression, some have cycles of highs and lows. This is usually when a drug like Welbutrin is prescribed - a mood controlling substance as opposed to the more powerful drugs used to dampen the overall activity of the brain. I see no reason really, with the knowledge about AADHD available to LeCure and the Reds, why it shouldn't actually be an enhancement to his abilities on the field.

    Sorry for the rant. I live in LeCure's world.

  8. #37
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    Quote Originally Posted by gm
    OTOH, he may forget whatever Gullett told him to do before the Sheriff is back in the dugout...
    That may not be a bad thing.

    Redleg Jake, if it isn't going to cause him problems on the field, that's terrific. I'm not too worried about it because on the off chance it does give him trouble, it'll be on minor league time.
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  9. #38
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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake
    You're on shaky ground Chip. Trust me on that. The ADD you see in teens and younger students is NOT the same as Adult ADD, its not some spastic kid unable to remember from moment to moment or hyperactive and unable to sit still. Most people with adult ADHD are highly creative, sensitive and intelligent. They are often found in creative type jobs, and in research sciences, where their rapid fire minds are an asset. There are definitely downsides, such as being very disorganized, seeming "spacey" or "absent minded" even though their mind IS working - at hyper speed. The mental health community has only become really aware of AADHD in the last 10 years or so. Before that adults with this dosorder were simply considered disorganized but bright in the best cases and "dreamers, irresponsible or flakes" in the worst cases. The concern over the ability to concentrate on the game at hand is so silly I almost had to laugh - none of you obviously have ADHD. One of the very curious, contradictory elements of an AAHD person is the ability to concentrate so extremely well that ohers feel they have "gone away". Reading, for instance, I become so exclusively concentrated on what I am reading I wouldn't hear you talking if you were standing right next to me - you'd have to nudge me or shake the paper in my hand to get my attention. It can ruin lives - and has, especially before it was better understand and clinician's began to study ways to help. Severe cases can require medications like Welbutrin on up to Ritalin etc. but most ADHD can greatly enrich their lives by simply earning about the disorder and making necessary adjustments. A secretary may take over the minute details of a salesman's day so that he can simply go out and sell, a field where ADHD adults also excel - many ADHD are very gregarious. In fact we tend to talk TOO much - as our brains race along. I've learned to listen for the sound of my own voice and now know when I'm beginning to talk too fast. Much of the problems associated with ADHD are controllable by the awareness of it and a concentrated effort to reign it in. It's often gentic and there are different tendencies among ADHD. Some are inward, the "loners" among us and others, like me, and probably Sam LeClure are outward - often too open with people for our own good. He needed an advisor who knew something about ADHD, but yes, with hundreds of students, it may have been difficult but seeing how much universities do for student athletes who DON'T have a clue and who don't have ADHD - like, as someone suggested, enrolling them in "golf 101" I find it incredulous Texas U didn't have people familiar with the needs of an ADHD student. As for his pitching ability - I GUARANTEE it won't affect his ability on the field. And yes, he better have coaches who keep on him about where to be, when to be there, etc. It's off the field LeClure will be frustrated and need help. I bit my tongue, or keyboard, if you will, throughout this discussion about LeClure but I can;t keep it in any longer. ADHD made my early life, in the twenties and thirties a shambles. I take full responsiblity for not learning how to handle it better then but I now really enjoy life and have become reasonably successful at controlling the negative things about ADHD (okay I may talk your ear off if you ever met me). The positives, empathy for others, ability to deeply concentrate on things I enjoy (btw, a person with ADHD's ability to hyper-concentrate is highly dependent on their enjoyment of what they are involved in, for instance I can;t suddenly begin concentrating on higher math or something like that because I don't enjoy it much - makes my mind begin to go all over the place). In terms of Sam LeCure and baseball I think his greatest trouble may come when he has several rough outings - ADHD also tend toward depression, some have cycles of highs and lows. This is usually when a drug like Welbutrin is prescribed - a mood controlling substance as opposed to the more powerful drugs used to dampen the overall activity of the brain. I see no reason really, with the knowledge about AADHD available to LeCure and the Reds, why it shouldn't actually be an enhancement to his abilities on the field.

    Sorry for the rant. I live in LeCure's world.

    Great daggone post, man.

    I agree with every word of it.
    "We know we're better than this, but we can't prove it." - Tony Gwynn

  10. #39
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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    Wow according to MLB.com the Reds got a Larry Walker, a mini Maddux and a Mini Clemens. That has to be one of the best drafts ever.

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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    Quote Originally Posted by RedlegJake
    You're on shaky ground Chip. Trust me on that. The ADD you see in teens and younger students is NOT the same as Adult ADD, its not some spastic kid unable to remember from moment to moment or hyperactive and unable to sit still. Most people with adult ADHD are highly creative, sensitive and intelligent. They are often found in creative type jobs, and in research sciences, where their rapid fire minds are an asset. There are definitely downsides, such as being very disorganized, seeming "spacey" or "absent minded" even though their mind IS working - at hyper speed. The mental health community has only become really aware of AADHD in the last 10 years or so. Before that adults with this dosorder were simply considered disorganized but bright in the best cases and "dreamers, irresponsible or flakes" in the worst cases. The concern over the ability to concentrate on the game at hand is so silly I almost had to laugh - none of you obviously have ADHD. One of the very curious, contradictory elements of an AAHD person is the ability to concentrate so extremely well that ohers feel they have "gone away". Reading, for instance, I become so exclusively concentrated on what I am reading I wouldn't hear you talking if you were standing right next to me - you'd have to nudge me or shake the paper in my hand to get my attention. It can ruin lives - and has, especially before it was better understand and clinician's began to study ways to help. Severe cases can require medications like Welbutrin on up to Ritalin etc. but most ADHD can greatly enrich their lives by simply earning about the disorder and making necessary adjustments. A secretary may take over the minute details of a salesman's day so that he can simply go out and sell, a field where ADHD adults also excel - many ADHD are very gregarious. In fact we tend to talk TOO much - as our brains race along. I've learned to listen for the sound of my own voice and now know when I'm beginning to talk too fast. Much of the problems associated with ADHD are controllable by the awareness of it and a concentrated effort to reign it in. It's often gentic and there are different tendencies among ADHD. Some are inward, the "loners" among us and others, like me, and probably Sam LeClure are outward - often too open with people for our own good. He needed an advisor who knew something about ADHD, but yes, with hundreds of students, it may have been difficult but seeing how much universities do for student athletes who DON'T have a clue and who don't have ADHD - like, as someone suggested, enrolling them in "golf 101" I find it incredulous Texas U didn't have people familiar with the needs of an ADHD student. As for his pitching ability - I GUARANTEE it won't affect his ability on the field. And yes, he better have coaches who keep on him about where to be, when to be there, etc. It's off the field LeClure will be frustrated and need help. I bit my tongue, or keyboard, if you will, throughout this discussion about LeClure but I can;t keep it in any longer. ADHD made my early life, in the twenties and thirties a shambles. I take full responsiblity for not learning how to handle it better then but I now really enjoy life and have become reasonably successful at controlling the negative things about ADHD (okay I may talk your ear off if you ever met me). The positives, empathy for others, ability to deeply concentrate on things I enjoy (btw, a person with ADHD's ability to hyper-concentrate is highly dependent on their enjoyment of what they are involved in, for instance I can;t suddenly begin concentrating on higher math or something like that because I don't enjoy it much - makes my mind begin to go all over the place). In terms of Sam LeCure and baseball I think his greatest trouble may come when he has several rough outings - ADHD also tend toward depression, some have cycles of highs and lows. This is usually when a drug like Welbutrin is prescribed - a mood controlling substance as opposed to the more powerful drugs used to dampen the overall activity of the brain. I see no reason really, with the knowledge about AADHD available to LeCure and the Reds, why it shouldn't actually be an enhancement to his abilities on the field.

    Sorry for the rant. I live in LeCure's world.
    Excellent post. Having taught both high school and college, I've seen ADD and ADHD many times over. I sure don't "know" what it's like to have it, but I'm very sensitive to the fact that it's often completely misunderstood.

    And it has NOTHING to do with "character."

  12. #41
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    Huge props to RedlegJake for his post.

    LD is tricky business, the various iterations of ADD in particular. It's simultaneously overdiagnosed and mishandled. There's a lot of kids who've got a touch of something like it. I probably would be slapped with the ADD tag if I went through school today. I was a hyper kid and my doctors urged my mother to stick me on Ritalin, mostly because they found active, talkative kids an annoyance 30+ years ago. Really all I needed was to lay off the Apple Jacks and get plenty of running around time. It didn't really affect me in terms of schooling, I did pretty well.

    There's a lot of kids in that boat. Is Johnny a little hyper? Sure, but in a lot of cases it's not preventing him from learning things.

    Then there's kids for whom it's a real problem. The sad fact is that far too many schools consider it something that ought to be handled with medication and do a lousy job of supporting the kids who most need the help. Those kids are often viewed as an annoyance by the school system and their parents are treated like dangerous reactionaries when they point out that the system is failing their kids. The attitude of many teachers and school officials (even special ed coordinators) is something like, "Well, some pills and a homework sheet worked for Sally Smith. It'd work for your child too if you were a better parent."

    I know this stuff because I've got a sister who has some serious ADHD issues and my parents had to fight a war the entire time she was in school just to get the school system to enact the things that it put in her individual education plan. And this was in what a lot of people consider a pretty good school district (though it's eerily straight out of "Pump Up the Volume")

    On the character issue, I wouldn't ever assume a kid with LD issues lacked character because he/she had struggled in school. You never know how severe the LD issues are or how well the school is equipped to handle them (and it's easy to get lost at a megasized state university). That said, let's not be naive. Not everyone with LD issues has sterling character. I brought up my cousin in the draft thread. He's a gifted basketball player, might have the best three-point shot of anyone in eastern Pennsylvania this year. Pitt wanted him bad and was willing to redshirt him his freshman year and give him nearly unlimited tutoring and support. Then the assistant coach got to know him better. The kid's got severe learning disabilities which shouldn't be minimized (he may even be illiterate - for instance, he refuses to get a driver's license and the working suspicion is that's because he knows he can't pass the written test), but he also doesn't give a rip about overcoming them. He's scared off pretty much every basketball program in the mid-Atlantic and he may or may not graduate next week and he really doesn't care. If ever there was a kid who needed to join the military, it's him.

    So I think it's fair to say that we really don't know what Lecure's academic problems mean. I don't think they should be held against him and I don't think they should be ignored. Hopefully it turns into a non-issue as time passes.
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  13. #42
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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    "That said, let's not be naive. Not everyone with LD issues has sterling character."

    This is either an iteration of the obvious, or a reasonably uninformed jab at people with learning disabilities. I'm guessing former.

  14. #43
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    "That said, let's not be naive. Not everyone with LD issues has sterling character."

    This is either an iteration of the obvious, or a reasonably uninformed jab at people with learning disabilities. I'm guessing former.
    Iteration of the obvious. I mentioned it because there'd been lots of talk about Lecure's character.

    As for the second, I've got a sister with ADHD, a mother who consults on LD issues professionally and a son on the autism spectrum, I don't jab at people with LD issues and I'm far from uninformed.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I'm far from uninformed.
    That's good. Virtually everyone is. Or they think aren't but they are. Because you're right, the problem wavers precariously between efficacy of medication and the persistence and participation of parents/guardians, teachers, counselors. It's such an overdetermined problem, and every wiseacre's got a quick fix.

    When you've been in the business of teaching of some of the most intrasigently screwed up students you could imagine for 20 years, you don't hear stories, you become the stories; you're acting in the story, and the complexity is so rich it would be beautiful if it weren't so painful.

  16. #45
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    Re: 2005 Cincinnati Reds Draft Selections

    22nd round pick Robert Nickols, LHP Pima CC AZ

    3.48 ERA in 44 IP 6-2 64 K
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!


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