MLB Rumors 6/16- Reds Players 2

[wheels]

Good post, Krono. I see him much the same way. I can totally see the Reds hanging onto Harang and going year by year the next couple years and then signing him to a LTC and him being here a long time, like the pitching version of Sean Casey. Problem is, I think his contract starts to outweigh his production much sooner, like in about 2-3 years. They'll basically give him his LTC based on the performance he gave them in the year to year contracts, instead of what they project him for in the future.

Why do the Reds always do that?

"Here's your reward for playing well in your 1 year contract years, we'll give you a 3 yr 23M contact." Even though everyone knows that player has already had his career year before year 1 of that LTC.


Drives me friggin' crazy.

I hope you know how much it pains me to disagree with you on this one. Seriously...It makes me doubt my own sanity, but here goes nothing...

I'm always one of the first ones to cry out "Trade 'em all!", but in this case, I'd stand pat. The one flaw that I see in your otherwise sound logic is that I think you're over estimating just how good Harang really is. He's a nice pitcher, solid and all of that, but he's not number one or number two quality. I'm fairly convinced that when the season's done, he'll be a notch above mediocre. Would that get a nice return in trade?

Sure it would, but someone mentioned Dessens....Bowden got Lopez for him. Lopez has been off the charts, but nobody, I mean NOBODY would have guessed he'd be OPSing around .900 less than three years later. In fact, people were miffed that they didn't get more for Elmer at the time.

I don't trust DanO to deal pitching away, I just don't.

I'm also of the mind that pitching is what they need, and they've got one, and a cheap, durable one at that. They should look into keeping him at least until he's a FA.

I just wish they wouldn't have spent all of that dough this past offseason.

They needed a SS, and one has emerged in house.

They needed a reliable, durable starter, and one has emerged in house.

Instead of elation, we're filled with dread because we're all afraid they won't have the money to keep them.

It's a real shame.

....And it ain't because they're cheap, it's because they're stupid.

[TeamBoone]

Look at Harang's stats. I'm not making a decision based on wondering. I am looking at his past stats and current stats and making a decision that I am not going to get Wilsoned. I am not going to let one good start to the year cloud my judgement. If I get a great deal, I'm taking it, because he has not shown this kind of performance in the past. If he turns out well, fine, but I am going to make sure I get a couple prospects that will more than make up for, even if some of them don't pan out. That's how you make the deal. The Reds don't have to trade him. But if the right deal comes along, I'm not closing my mind to it.

Yes, you are considering his stats... and to me you're only making my point more valid. He's only this year come into his own. What's not to say he can't continue to improve? You won't know that until there are more stats to consider.

All I'm saying is to give him some time and not make a decision based on conjecture about his future when we don't know what lies there yet or on the notion that because he's doing well he's bound to go bad.

[redsfanmia]

At this point maybe the Reds should trade Harang. If we can get something potentally better than why not? If Harang was 23 i would say keep him but he is going good now his value is the highest it has been to date. No one in this entire organization can be considered untradeable in my opinion.

[jmcclain19]

At this point maybe the Reds should trade Harang. If we can get something potentally better than why not? If Harang was 23 i would say keep him but he is going good now his value is the highest it has been to date. No one in this entire organization can be considered untradeable in my opinion.

Whats the point of developing young pitching, if you turn around and send it away for an unknown quantity.

Right now, Harang's cheap and productive.

So's Claussen.

I'd say those two things are reason enough to keep them around.

Let's work on getting rid of the expensive and unproductive, something the Reds have plenty of.

[CTA513]

I think the Reds should trade for kids in D ball or T-Ball... get them while there young(M. Jackson).

[redsfanmia]

Whats the point of developing young pitching, if you turn around and send it away for an unknown quantity.

Right now, Harang's cheap and productive.

So's Claussen.

I'd say those two things are reason enough to keep them around.

Let's work on getting rid of the expensive and unproductive, something the Reds have plenty of.

To get something of value you have to trade something of value. No one wants expensive and unproductive. Im not saying the Reds should trade Harang or Claussen but if the right deal came along then you have to move them. I think Harang is no better than a 3 starter, if we can move him for a potential 1 then I say do it, having Harang this season means a few more wins in season of 90+ loses. A number 1 could mean alot more in the future when/if we ever contend again.

[New Fever]

Somebody said that Lopez was an unknown commodity, but he was a Top 10 prospect in all of baseball while in the Blue Jays system. People always expect players to come to the show and produce immediately, some players need a little more time.

[RDriesen16]

Chad Billingsley, Joel Guzman: I would take that deal in a second. Only one problem. Nobody in their right mind would make that deal. First of all, Randa's not the long term solution that Guzman is. Second Guzman is one the best hitting prospects in the minors, and Billingsly isn't too bad as pitching prospect either. I would jump at a deal that gave either of those for Randa and Harang, but it won't happen.

guzman or laroche better be coming back. and you gotta figure la will part with one, more likely guzman. as randa can play till the one they keep is ready

[M2]

Funny thing is, Dodgers' fans are about as enamored with their GM as we are with ours.

I didn't like DePo's most recent offseason, but last season he did have the Dodgers back in the playoffs after a long drought. The team's also above .500 even with a slew of pitching injuries. DePo hasn't wowed me, but I wouldn't put him and Dan O'Brien on the same planet in terms of GM performance. DePo inherited a shaky team and put it in the playoffs. Obie inherited a mess and has made it worse.

[pedro]

I didn't like DePo's most recent offseason, but last season he did have the Dodgers back in the playoffs after a long drought. The team's also above .500 even with a slew of pitching injuries. DePo hasn't wowed me, but I wouldn't put him and Dan O'Brien on the same planet in terms of GM performance. DePo inherited a shaky team and put it in the playoffs. Obie inherited a mess and has made it worse.

You know, the really interesting thing to me is that his biggest questionable move (Lowe) has turned out OK so far. I wouldn't bet that Lowe will perform at this level thoughout the length of his contract and I think giving a 32 year old pitcher a 4 year contract is pretty reckless, but I can't knock him for it now.

Other than that, I still like the Lo Duca / Penny trade and he did manage to dump Green and steal Milton Bradley.

I think he's done a damn good job so far.

[M2]

Harang's an honest to goodness, meat and potatoes, middle of the rotation starter.

That's my take too. He's on a 215 IP pace. He's also on a 200+ K pace. His current 3.86 ERA is probably the range you should expect for him. Reds fans should be thrilled with that if he delivers on it. No, it's not an ace, it's a horse and, IMO, it's every bit as valuable as an ace to a team like the Reds.

For those who are skeptical about him and expecting him to fall apart, I get that. You might be right. His current peripherals don't suggest a collapse is coming, like they did with Paul Wilson last season, but it could happen.

I'd be willing to trade him for a screamer of a deal, meaning two highly advanced pitching prospects that put me in drool mode. Not many teams have that. The Dodgers sure don't. Edwin Jackson's a turd and Paul DePodesta probably flails himself nightly over not trading that piece of overhyped nothing for a big bat (DanO said he'd have put Dunn on the table) when he had the chance.

[M2]

You know, the really interesting thing to me is that his biggest questionable move (Lowe) has turned out OK so far. I wouldn't bet that Lowe will perform at this level thoughout the length of his contract and I think giving a 32 year old pitcher a 4 year contract is pretty reckless, but I can't knock him for it now.

Looks like the NL's catching up to Lowe.

April ERA - 2.04
May ERA - 4.14
June ERA - 5.49

His ERA's been on a steady climb since his 5/7 start against the Reds, where they figured out that his stuff can get drilled pretty good once you get used to it a bit.

[pedro]

Looks like the NL's catching up to Lowe.

April ERA - 2.04
May ERA - 4.14
June ERA - 5.49

His ERA's been on a steady climb since his 5/7 start against the Reds, where they figured out that his stuff can get drilled pretty good once you get used to it a bit.

you're probably right, but they've certainly got more payflex than the Reds.

is Gagne signed past this year?

[OnBaseMachine]

DePodesta is looking smart for letting Beltre walk and signing Drew instead.

Beltre-.244/.279/.361
Drew-.281/.400/.507

Beltre signed a 5 yr 64 mil contract with the M's. That's about as bad as the Milton deal.

2000 posts!

[OnBaseMachine]

Lowe is just nasty on righties, lefties, on the other hand...

lefties-.319/.370/.450
righties-.208/.222/.329

Dodger Stadium-.263/.283/.387
On the road-.272/.329/.401

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/player...s?statsId=5801