Wal-Mart

[jmcclain19]

Here's my experience with unions.

My brother was the manager of the largest water park here in the Phoenix area for five years. This winter, he was offered big bucks to go back to the east coast and work for a Six Flags waterpark which had been underperforming.

When he arrived, he did, as he did every year with his former job, had everyone pass tests of first aid, swimming, lifeguard knowledge, etc.

To his surprise, four of his top employees, including the former supervisor which he supplanted in a newly created position, couldn't even pass the basic swim test. Two of those were the department "instructors" who taught other lifeguards the basic skills to get them certified.

So he moved to have them fired right away, as you can't have lifeguards who can't swim, especially one's in power in a major meto water park.

Turned out that when filling out the job requirements, someone neglected to mention "swimming" and other life saving aspects as part of the job, so the union was able to block the four employees firings.

His response was to move those four individuals to the lowest areas where their lack of skills could do the least amount of damage, but the Human Resources dept has told him he also can not hire four new employees to supplement those four.

The union was also able to stop it the first month when he reduced each full time employee to one shift, as they were hired for a minimum of X amount of hours and because they hadn't been fired.

So the end result, was he had to write all four up to put it on record, and is forced to have each work a minimum of 30 hours at their jobs, on the cusp of saving lives swimming in the water.

The morale of the story - I won't tell you which Six Flags it is, other than it's in the upper east coast region of the country.

But if you're taking a visit this summer to any of that company's water parks in that area, watch your kids at all times, because those type of lifeguards, those who can't swim, is your safety net for keeping them alive.

[jmcclain19]

Unions CAN be a good thing.

However, unions can also be corrupt, bloated, and useless. At their core, I respect their mission: solidarity among the workers to lobby for better wages and working conditions. However, I worked under the UVCW local 1059 for seven years at kroger, and I can say firsthand that the union was responsible for keeping more useless employees in more jobs than I care to count. Many times the leadership of larger unions are corrupt, and the benefits they offer the workers on the lowest rung of the ladder is often menial. They also do an amazingly thorough job of keeping surly, lazy and just plain bad employees around, because management is afraid to fire them for fear of a greivance being filed.

I realize that stance is fairly right wing, and I tend to veer to the left on most social issues. And I don't mean to say that all unions are corrupt, useless, bloated etc. But enough of them are to warrant a serious examination as to how many of them are *truly* protecting workers.

props for this post - hit the nail right on the head.

[Steve4192]

The most serious were found at a store in Putnam, in northeastern Connecticut, where there were three instances of people under 18 operating equipment like compactors to crush cardboard

That was the most serious infraction?

Color me unimpressed.

I had a summer job at a local moving & storage company when I was in HS was stoked to get paid twice what my friends at the mall got paid while working outside. On occassion, part of the job was operating a compactor and crushing boxes and other packing materials. The guy who usually operated the compactor was the thirtysomingthing retarded (sorry, I forget the current PC term for the condition) nephew of the owner. When he was off making coffee or doing custodial work, they had the HS kids operate the compactor in his absence.

If that employer was violating child labor laws by letting me operate that machine and work long hours in the summer, I'd just like to say to them ... 'THANKS!'. I would have been pissed if some government agency came in and cost me a great job (for a HS kid) because they didn't think I could operate a machine that was regularly manned by a guy with a 60 IQ.

[Falls City Beer]

Do you like weekends off (days off), health benefits, fair wages? Those wouldn't exist without unions.

Believe it or not, not everyone on earth is cut out to "be his/her own boss." We can't all run internet companies. Some of us have to pick up the trash, fix the cars, build the cars, wait tables, bag groceries, teach. And yes, those people are humans too.

Unions can be corrupt, no doubt, but they check corruption on the management side so that your parents and your parents' parents didn't HAVE to live in Fordtowns to survive. A little gratitude is due, IMO.

[reds_fan29]

Do you like weekends off (days off), health benefits, fair wages? Those wouldn't exist without unions.

Believe it or not, not everyone on earth is cut out to "be his/her own boss." We can't all run internet companies. Some of us have to pick up the trash, fix the cars, build the cars, wait tables, bag groceries, teach. And yes, those people are humans too.

Unions can be corrupt, no doubt, but they check corruption on the management side so that your parents and your parents' parents didn't HAVE to live in Fordtowns to survive. A little gratitude is due, IMO.

very well said

[RedsBaron]

Do you like weekends off (days off), health benefits, fair wages? Those wouldn't exist without unions.

Believe it or not, not everyone on earth is cut out to "be his/her own boss." We can't all run internet companies. Some of us have to pick up the trash, fix the cars, build the cars, wait tables, bag groceries, teach. And yes, those people are humans too.

Unions can be corrupt, no doubt, but they check corruption on the management side so that your parents and your parents' parents didn't HAVE to live in Fordtowns to survive. A little gratitude is due, IMO.

I agree. I do not belong to a union. My late father, a blue collar worker, did. Unions have a lot of shortcomings, but so does about everything else.

[WVRed]

Unions can be corrupt, no doubt, but they check corruption on the management side so that your parents and your parents' parents didn't HAVE to live in Fordtowns to survive. A little gratitude is due, IMO.

But the problem lies in that these unions keep people in work that otherwise should have been fired or demoted a long time ago.

Dont get me wrong, im in favor of unions. I think Wal-Mart should be the perfect example of why unions should exist. However, some of the examples listed on these threads show the corruption of those unions.

[Steve4192]

But the problem lies in that these unions keep people in work that otherwise should have been fired or demoted a long time ago.

No doubt.

The question is do unions do more harm than good, and IMO the answer is a resounding NO! For every shiftless lazy bum a union keeps employed, there are a plethora of hard working dedicated people that the union keeps from being exploited.

[919191]

No doubt.

The question is do unions do more harm than good, and IMO the answer is a resounding NO! For every shiftless lazy bum a union keeps employed, there are a plethora of hard working dedicated people that the union keeps from being exploited.

I agree. I myself am a right wing conservative, kind of reactionary, yet I am pro union.

[registerthis]

Do you like weekends off (days off), health benefits, fair wages? Those wouldn't exist without unions.

Believe it or not, not everyone on earth is cut out to "be his/her own boss." We can't all run internet companies. Some of us have to pick up the trash, fix the cars, build the cars, wait tables, bag groceries, teach. And yes, those people are humans too.

Unions can be corrupt, no doubt, but they check corruption on the management side so that your parents and your parents' parents didn't HAVE to live in Fordtowns to survive. A little gratitude is due, IMO.

No one here is saying that union's haven't served workers well in the past, or in some cases continue to do so. Particularly during the early half of the 20th century, they were absolutely vital to combat unfair and dangerous management practices.

But it has become a classic example of something starting off well and then spiralling out of control. Unions have moved from pro-worker to anti-management, which frequently results in many of the examples listed in this thread. Workers aren't protected so much as they are insulated from management, who many times may have just cause to fire the workers, yet cannot do so for fear of union reprisal.

I'm not arguing that unions should be abolished, but there needs to be tighter controls and regulations on these organizations that frequently foster corruption, greed and laziness.

[919191]

I've been up all night- night shift. I might later tryu to post some info on behavior-based safety management. It basically is accidents are caused by improper decisions by employers. If there is a hole in the middle of a corrider 15 feet deep, and a worker falls into it, it is his fault completely because he engaged in dangerous behavior. Since he engaged in such behavior, discipline is warranted. This is a fairly new and poor philosophy taken by management.

[LincolnparkRed]

No one here is saying that union's haven't served workers well in the past, or in some cases continue to do so. Particularly during the early half of the 20th century, they were absolutely vital to combat unfair and dangerous management practices.

But it has become a classic example of something starting off well and then spiralling out of control. Unions have moved from pro-worker to anti-management, which frequently results in many of the examples listed in this thread. Workers aren't protected so much as they are insulated from management, who many times may have just cause to fire the workers, yet cannot do so for fear of union reprisal.

I'm not arguing that unions should be abolished, but there needs to be tighter controls and regulations on these organizations that frequently foster corruption, greed and laziness.

In a previous job I was in charge of auditing unions here in Chicago and while I will say off the bat that I believe unions have served a positive purpose and should continue, I have also seen many instances of corruption and waste by those who run the union in the "best interest" of the rank and file members.

Union officials staying in hotels in downtown Chicago for hundreds of dollars a night b/c they don't want to wake up at 6 to drive in for a 9 o'clock meeting.

Taking spouses and family members on trip to Hawaii to attend meetings and then trying to have the union pay for it all.

I just think most of the people who are in charge of the unions have lost touch with their members. They are making 6 figures in most cases and living like kings while the rank and file are fighting with employers for every dime.

[westofyou]

Wal-Mart is trying get in our neighborhood, mobilization is underway.

http://www.nosellwoodwalmart.com/

[Dom Heffner]

But the problem lies in that these unions keep people in work that otherwise should have been fired or demoted a long time ago.

MWM, the same thing can be said about corporations. We trusted them to do their thing, and they blew it. Too bad, so sad. We need unions to keep the other side in check. Trust me, we could all share stories of corrupt companies and unions, but we need them both or we are left with corrupt companies.

Like Wal-Mart.

Women? Pay them less. And then they work people 40 plus hours and make them do it off the clock to save their own sorry butts from getting in trouble. Sorry, but I don't need a $3 belt that bad. I would rather them pay their people and I'll fork over a little more.

If corporations really wanted unions gone, they would start treating their people better instead of giving us the old "You should be happy you have a job" excuse everytime they want their workers to do absolutely ridiculous tasks.

And even unions don't make things great. My father worked at Ford Motor Company for 40 years and his salary was $50,000 a year.

[redsfanmia]

My statement is kind of off topic as of now but I am a sales rep who services a new Walmart and I just want to give some insight into their practices. Everytime i step foot into Walmart im not asked how their sales are I am asked how much business is down in the other accounts in the area. Walmart in interested in putting other companies out of business period. Walmart is the evil empire and hopefully it will be stopped or slowed soon!!!!