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Thread: Foster's comments

  1. #16
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Foster's comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    As RFS62 wrote, Miley is to blame for not being able to identify and optimize Dunn's skill set.
    Exactly. Miley has no idea how to use him to maximize what Dunn does best.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

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  3. #17
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    Re: Foster's comments

    Quote Originally Posted by ochre
    It is a lot less complicated than the book makes it seem. Those that make the fewest outs on offense tend to score the most runs. The micro-events that the 'book' builds its rules around are not even valid for a significant portion of the macro of a game, let alone a season. A 2 hitter doesn't bat second every time up. Occasionally a 2 hitter bats last and unless that is a game winning plate event, that is what he needs to avoid (making an out).
    a two hitter doesn't bat second every time up but he does have 2 or 3 of the team's best hitters coming up after him EVERY TIME up.......that is where batting order is critical.

    And a 6 spot hitter has typically the team's 3 worst hitters upcoming EVERY TIME up......

  4. #18
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
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    Re: Foster's comments

    Dunn is the player he is, asking him to change would be a bad thing, like Bob Boone telling him to swing more and him struggling mightily in 2003.

    Miley can put him in the right spot in the order, Miley for whatever reason, won't do it.
    Go Gators!

  5. #19
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Foster's comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    As RFS62 wrote, Miley is to blame for not being able to identify and optimize Dunn's skill set.
    Actually, other than batting him 8th, there isn't much he could do that's WORSE for Dunn than he's already done.

    Imagine the pitches he'd be seeing in the two spot.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
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  6. #20
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    Re: Foster's comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa
    Exactly. Miley has no idea how to use him to maximize what Dunn does best.
    Or on the flip side Dunn is totally unwilling or unable to make some of the basic adjustments which would make him easier to manage, more versatile, easier to fit into a system. (for any manager miley included)

  7. #21
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    Re: Foster's comments

    Managers used to have a hard time figuring out where to bat Bobby Bonds too....beacuse he K'd a lot....they did not want him to be batting first, after a while. Even though he would take a walk, especially in his first 5-6 years and he had that 30-50 SB speed. Dunn does not have that type of speed that Bonds has but he hits with more power...but lower BA. I think 4th should be his spot....with Griffey 5th or 3rd.

  8. #22
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Foster's comments

    Quote Originally Posted by BadFundamentals

    Star players play the cards they are dealt. Dunn could have made himself a better candidate (even for an old school manager) for a #2 or #3 hole batting slot the past few years by working on bat control, raising avg. a little, cutting strikeouts etc. .etc....he has either chosen or has been unable to make any of those adjustments. Miley is not the only manager in baseball who would have trouble justifying to himself putting dunn in 2 or 3 hole. But for the record, I too have advocated giving Dunn a shot in #2 hole to see what would happen............
    Competent managers properly play the cards they are dealt. It may not be Miley's fault that O'Brien has signed duds such as Milton to be the ace of the pitching staff, but a competent manager should know how to fill out a lineup card to maximize the chances of scoring enough runs to win.
    Dunn has an on-base percentage of .398, 11th in the NL and second on the Reds to Freel's .406. Dunn has a slugging percentage of .565, 5th in the NL and the best on the Reds. Dunn has an OPS of .963, 6th in the NL and the best on the Reds.
    Dunn isn't perfect, but he has easily done enough to warrant batting him second or third in the Reds lineup.
    If I suddenly was given the task of rebuilding the Reds, while I'd fire O'Brien and Gullett and a lot of other people in my first minute on the job, the very first guy I'd fire, in a nano-second, would be Miley.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  9. #23
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Foster's comments

    Or on the flip side Dunn is totally unwilling or unable to make some of the basic adjustments which would make him easier to manage, more versatile, easier to fit into a system. (for any manager miley included)
    And if my Buick was a Corvette, I'd have a lot more fun driving it.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  10. #24
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Foster's comments

    It is such a simple concept: Get your best hitters up to the plate as much as possible. Why Miley can't grasp that is amazing.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  11. #25
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Re: Foster's comments

    Does the smart man put the round peg in the round hole or try to hammer the round peg in the square hole?

    Seems to me that asking someone to try to do something that they do not excel at is as sure a recipe for failure as you can find.
    Last edited by flyer85; 06-20-2005 at 01:46 PM.
    What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

  12. #26
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Foster's comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    And if my Buick was a Corvette, I'd have a lot more fun driving it.
    Give Miley a Corvette and he'd try to go off-roading with it in the snow, and would then blame the Corvette when he got stuck. It would also be the Corvette's fault if Miley couldn't get a family of five in the car.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  13. #27
    Hey Cubs Fans RFS62's Avatar
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    Re: Foster's comments

    The most basic fundamental of coaching in any sport is to assess your personnel and implement a system that takes advantage of the cards you've been dealt.

    If you don't have a guy who can run the baseline, you don't play a 1-3-1.
    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    ~ Mark Twain

  14. #28
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    Re: Foster's comments

    Quote Originally Posted by BadFundamentals
    Or on the flip side Dunn is totally unwilling or unable to make some of the basic adjustments which would make him easier to manage, more versatile, easier to fit into a system. (for any manager miley included)
    Let's say that Dave Miley put Ryan Freel in the cleanup slot in the lineup.

    You gonna blame Freel for not "adjusting" his game in order to acquire more extra-base hits and HR because that's what the cleanup slot "requires"?

    Of course not.

    Competent managers construct lineups around the skills of the players they have. They don't push square pegs into round holes repeatedly. And if they do, the players are not to blame for it.

    Dave Miley is the only person on the planet dumb enough to place someone with the skill set of Adam Dunn in the 6th slot in the lineup.
    "The problem with strikeouts isn't that they hurt your team, it's that they hurt your feelings..." --Rob Neyer

    "The single most important thing for a hitter is to get a good pitch to hit. A good hitter can hit a pitch that’s over the plate three times better than a great hitter with a ball in a tough spot.”
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  15. #29
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Foster's comments

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa
    Does the smart man put the round peg in the round hole or try to hammer the round peg in the square hole?

    Seems to me that asking someone to try to do something that they do not excel at is as sure a recipe for failure as you can find.
    Could you use that hammer on a certain Reds manager?
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  16. #30
    Member ochre's Avatar
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    Re: Foster's comments

    Quote Originally Posted by BadFundamentals
    a two hitter doesn't bat second every time up but he does have 2 or 3 of the team's best hitters coming up after him EVERY TIME up.......that is where batting order is critical.

    And a 6 spot hitter has typically the team's 3 worst hitters upcoming EVERY TIME up......
    would you rather your best hitters bat with 2 on and no outs, or a guy on second and one out?
    4009




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