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Thread: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    He said the statements have been broadcast throughout the Middle East, putting U.S. troops in greater danger. The Illinois Democrat has since apologized for the remarks.
    In other words; oppose our policy -- endanger our troops. That's the most disgusting part, especiallly coming from this clique of chickenhawks.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966
    I think that is a matter of interpretation. Not sure if you mean the Patriot Act, this new flag burning thing or something else.

    Not to single you out, register... but have you lost any freedoms today that you once had before Pres. G.W. Bush and his administration? The only one I can think of for myself is getting on a plane quicker.
    I have lost the freedom to have my voice heard. At rallies throughout the campaign, at "town hall meetings" and at press conferences, Bush has insulated himself from protests or dissent of any kind--moving protesters blocks away from the event, denying entrance to those who disagree with him, placing people in the audience to ask him gopher-ball questions.

    I have lost the right to privacy. My library records may now be checked, my purchasing habits scrutinized, my phone calls tapped, and my bank account observed much easier than before. I have lost a due process to fight these intrusions into my life under the guise of "fighting terrorism."

    I have lost the right to be a dissenting voice without being labelled a traitor, unpatriotic or a terrorist sympathizer.

    But don't just take my word for it...the patriot Act does a fine job of that on it's own:

    FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigations.

    FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records questions.

    FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

    RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes.

    FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

    RIGHT TO A SPEEDY AND PUBLIC TRIAL: Government may jail Americans indefinitely without a trial.

    RIGHT TO LIBERTY: Americans may be jailed without being charged or being able to confront witnesses against them.

    ...all under the name of "fighting terrorism."

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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    But registerthis, they only do those things to the bad guys.

    Decent, law abiding non-terrorists have nothing to fear.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    But registerthis, they only do those things to the bad guys.

    Decent, law abiding non-terrorists have nothing to fear.
    Paternal Republican: "Calm down now, don't be hysterical, be a man and shut up and goose step. I said goose step. And shut up. Ah, ah...I said shut up.

    Security!!"

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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    W.House rejects apology for Rove's Sept. 11 remarks
    W.House rejects apology for Rove's Sept. 11 remarks

    By Steve Holland1 hour, 38 minutes ago



    Democrats demanded an apology from top White House adviser Karl Rove on Thursday for saying liberals responded weakly to the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, a request quickly rejected by the White House.

    The complaints were the latest aftershocks in a bitter partisan battle in Washington over U.S. foreign and domestic policy and followed a Republican-led uproar over remarks made by Illinois Democratic Sen. Dick Durbin about U.S. treatment of detainees at Guantanamo Bay.

    Speaking to the Conservative Party of New York State on Wednesday night, Rove was quoted as saying: "Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 in the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers."

    Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid of Nevada issued a statement saying "it is time to stop using Sept. 11 as a political wedge issue."

    "Karl Rove should immediately and fully apologize for his remarks or he should resign," Reid said. "The lesson of Sept. 11 is not different for conservatives, liberals or moderates."

    White House spokesman Scott McClellan defended Rove's remarks and rebuffed suggestions that he apologize. "Of course not," McClellan said.

    He said Rove was "talking about the different philosophies and different approaches when it comes to winning the war on terrorism."

    "I would think that they would want to be able to defend their philosophy and their approach, and I know that the Democratic leadership at this point is offering no ideas and no vision for the American people," McClellan said.

    Rove's remarks were reminiscent of some of President Bush's speeches from his re-election campaign last year but seemed to go further in saying liberals had offered therapy for the attackers.

    Rove was the architect of Bush's 2004 campaign and is now a deputy White House chief of staff.

    Congressional Democrats criticized Rove in press releases, at news conferences and in comments on the Senate floor. Some echoed Reed's comments that Rove should retract the comments or resign.

    Sen. Hillary Clinton, a New York Democrat, said it was time for all to "just take a breath and calm down and eliminate the divisive rhetoric on all sides."

    In New York, Republican Mayor Michael Bloomberg, citing the families and survivors of those killed in the hijacked airliner attacks, said, "No one has ever raised issues of ideology or partisanship."

    "We owe it to those we lost to keep partisan politics out of the discussion," Bloomberg said.

    New York City Council Speaker Gifford Miller, a Democrat, also demanded an apology. "New Yorkers don't need a lecture by Karl Rove," he said.

    Democrats' demands for an apology from Rove came two days after Durbin yielded to a drumbeat of largely Republican criticism and apologized for criticizing U.S. interrogation methods at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

    That controversy erupted on June 14 when Durbin quoted from an FBI agent's report describing detainees at Guantanamo chained to the floor without food or water.



    "If I read this to you and did not tell you that it was an FBI agent describing what Americans had done to prisoners in their control, you would most certainly believe this must have been done by Nazis, Soviets in their gulags or some mad regime -- Pol Pot or others - that had no concern for human beings," Durbin had said. The cross-fire between Republicans and Democrats reflected a deep partisan divide over the direction of U.S. foreign and domestic policy, from the Iraq war to Bush's proposals for overhauling Social Security. (Additional reporting by Thomas Ferraro)



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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    But registerthis, they only do those things to the bad guys.
    My dad told me I was bad once. Does that count?

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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    June 23, 2005
    FOS11 Statement on Comments Made By Karl Rove
    As families whose relatives were victims of the 9/11 terror attacks, we believe it is an outrage that any Democrat, any Republican, any conservative or any liberal, stakes a "high ground" position based upon the September 11th death and destruction. Doing so assumes that all those who died and their loved ones would agree. In truth, some would and some would not. By definition the conduct is divisive and, because it is intended to be self-serving and politicizes 9/11, it is offensive. We are calling on Karl Rove to resist his temptations and stop trying to reap political gain in the tragic misfortune of others. His comments are not welcome.
    Read the Press Release

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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    Rove DOES need to apologize, just like Durbin did earlier this week.

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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    Have to hand it to Rove, actually. His verbal grenade did a good job of taking the news spotlight off of the steady stream of bad news about the administration. He's probably not saying anything that conservative pundits like Rush Limbaugh haven't said hundreds of times already.

    Not that I think he will or should resign, but even if he did, he'd still be a political consultant to the White House from afar, kind of like Karen Hughes was for awhile.
    /r/reds

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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by Unassisted
    Have to hand it to Rove, actually. His verbal grenade did a good job of taking the news spotlight off of the steady stream of bad news about the administration. He's probably not saying anything that conservative pundits like Rush Limbaugh haven't said hundreds of times already.

    Not that I think he will or should resign, but even if he did, he'd still be a political consultant to the White House from afar, kind of like Karen Hughes was for awhile.
    Right. The American public has REALLY been giving the Bush Administration the "fine comb" treatment. They've demonstrated again and again that they won't tolerate any shenanigans from THAT administration.

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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaycint
    Rove DOES need to apologize, just like Durbin did earlier this week.
    I don't expect Rove to apologize, but if he does, I expect to be one of the typical non-apology apologies where he says something about being sorry if anyone was offended by his remarks, thereby implying that no one should have been offended. I think that is essentially what Durbin did, following a long standing bipartisan example.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    Just a reminder as liberals continue bashing Mr. Bush relentlessly about the war. And of course, they're acting as though Mr. Bush deceived the American people to justify the war. Isn't it odd, then, that they were all in favor of the war BEFORE we committed to it? Isn't it odd that THEY were just as adamant as Mr. Bush about the need for war when they thought it to be to THEIR political benefit?

    Below you'll find five years of classic hypocrisy from the political party that specializes in hypocrisy...

    "As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Nancy Pelosi

    "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore

    "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."- Al Gore

    "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser

    "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy

    "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry

    "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Jay Rockerfeller

    "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do." - Rep. Henry Waxman

    "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." - Hillary Clinton

    "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob Graham

    The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." - Robert Byrd

    "Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." - John Edwards

    "I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction." - Dick Gephardt

    And the award for the greatest flip-flopper goes to (envelope please).... Wesley Clark, who says he was against the war from the beginning...

    "I've been against this war from the beginning. I was against it last summer. I was against it in the fall. I was against it in the winter. I was against it in the spring. And I'm against it now."- Retired General Wesley Clark, in a candidates' debate, October 26, 2003.

    Really?

    On the question of Iraq's supposed weapons of mass destruction, Clark seemed remarkably confident of their existence. Clark told CNN's Miles O'Brien that Saddam Hussein "does have weapons of mass destruction." When O'Brien asked, "And you could say that categorically?" Clark was resolute: "Absolutely" (1/18/03).

    When CNN's Zahn (4/2/03) asked if he had any doubts about finding the weapons, Clark responded: "I think they will be found. There's so much intelligence on this."

    And listen to Clark's boldness and priase for Bush and Blair after the intial invasion of Iraq....

    "Liberation is at hand. Liberation, the powerful balm that justifies painful sacrifice, erases lingering doubt and reinforces bold actions,"

    Clark wrote in a London Times column (4/10/03). "Already the scent of victory is in the air." Clark was exuberant about the results of "a lean plan, using only about a third of the ground combat power of the Gulf War. If the alternative to attacking in March with the equivalent of four divisions was to wait until late April to attack with five, they certainly made the right call."

    Clark made bold predictions about the effect the war would have on the region...

    "Many Gulf states will hustle to praise their liberation from a sense of insecurity they were previously loath even to express. Egypt and Saudi Arabia will move slightly but perceptibly towards Western standards of human rights."

    George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair "should be proud of their resolve in the face of so much doubt," Clark explained. "Their opponents, those who questioned the necessity or wisdom of the operation, are temporarily silent, but probably unconvinced." The way Clark speaks of the "opponents" having been silenced is instructive, since he presumably does not include himself-- obviously not "temporarily silent"-- in that category.

    Clark closed the piece with visions of victory celebrations here at home...

    "Let's have those parades on the Mall and down Constitution Avenue." In another column the next day (London Times, 4/11/03), Clark summed up the lessons of the war this way: "The campaign in Iraq illustrates the continuing progress of military technology and tactics, but if there is a single overriding lesson it must be this: American military power, especially when buttressed by Britain's, is virtually unchallengeable today. Take us on? Don't try! And that's not hubris, it's just plain fact."
    Last edited by GAC; 06-23-2005 at 09:17 PM.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    Just a reminder as liberals continue bashing Mr. Bush relentlessly about the war. And of course, they're acting as though Mr. Bush deceived the American people to justify the war. Isn't it odd, then, that they were all in favor of the war BEFORE we committed to it? Isn't it odd that THEY were just as adamant as Mr. Bush about the need for war when they thought it to be to THEIR political benefit?

    Below you'll find five years of classic hypocrisy from the political party that specializes in hypocrisy...

    "As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." - Nancy Pelosi

    "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." - Al Gore

    "Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."- Al Gore

    "He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." - Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser

    "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Ted Kennedy

    "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." - Sen. John F. Kerry

    "There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Jay Rockerfeller

    "He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do." - Rep. Henry Waxman

    "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." - Hillary Clinton

    "We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." - Sen. Bob Graham

    The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." - Robert Byrd

    "Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." - John Edwards

    "I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction." - Dick Gephardt

    And the award for the greatest flip-flopper goes to (envelope please).... Wesley Clark, who says he was against the war from the beginning...

    "I've been against this war from the beginning. I was against it last summer. I was against it in the fall. I was against it in the winter. I was against it in the spring. And I'm against it now."- Retired General Wesley Clark, in a candidates' debate, October 26, 2003.

    Really?

    On the question of Iraq's supposed weapons of mass destruction, Clark seemed remarkably confident of their existence. Clark told CNN's Miles O'Brien that Saddam Hussein "does have weapons of mass destruction." When O'Brien asked, "And you could say that categorically?" Clark was resolute: "Absolutely" (1/18/03).

    When CNN's Zahn (4/2/03) asked if he had any doubts about finding the weapons, Clark responded: "I think they will be found. There's so much intelligence on this."

    And listen to Clark's boldness and priase for Bush and Blair after the intial invasion of Iraq....

    "Liberation is at hand. Liberation, the powerful balm that justifies painful sacrifice, erases lingering doubt and reinforces bold actions,"

    Clark wrote in a London Times column (4/10/03). "Already the scent of victory is in the air." Clark was exuberant about the results of "a lean plan, using only about a third of the ground combat power of the Gulf War. If the alternative to attacking in March with the equivalent of four divisions was to wait until late April to attack with five, they certainly made the right call."

    Clark made bold predictions about the effect the war would have on the region...

    "Many Gulf states will hustle to praise their liberation from a sense of insecurity they were previously loath even to express. Egypt and Saudi Arabia will move slightly but perceptibly towards Western standards of human rights."

    George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair "should be proud of their resolve in the face of so much doubt," Clark explained. "Their opponents, those who questioned the necessity or wisdom of the operation, are temporarily silent, but probably unconvinced." The way Clark speaks of the "opponents" having been silenced is instructive, since he presumably does not include himself-- obviously not "temporarily silent"-- in that category.

    Clark closed the piece with visions of victory celebrations here at home...

    "Let's have those parades on the Mall and down Constitution Avenue." In another column the next day (London Times, 4/11/03), Clark summed up the lessons of the war this way: "The campaign in Iraq illustrates the continuing progress of military technology and tactics, but if there is a single overriding lesson it must be this: American military power, especially when buttressed by Britain's, is virtually unchallengeable today. Take us on? Don't try! And that's not hubris, it's just plain fact."
    The desire on the part of most Democrats to invade Iraq was based upon the intelligence that the Administration presented to them. If the Dems did anything wrong, they trusted that their leader wouldn't present them false and misleading intelligence. Fool me once....

  15. #29
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    The real knock on the Dems should be that so many of them decided to support the war originally as part of a conniving political strategy. Some of them, Ted Kennedy for instance, called the invasion for the B.S. it was. The intelligence didn't add up, it didn't present Hussein as any sort of legitimate threat to the U.S. and the Bush administration didn't have an exit plan.

    What the rest of the party figured was that by voting to give Bush carte blance, they insulated themselves from wimp accusations and improved the party's chances of holding the Senate and re-taking the House in November 2002. Their hope was Hussein was such a non-entity that our military would roll over him (which it did) and that Bush was so gung-ho to make this a military world tour that we wouldn't get bogged down (which didn't pan out).

    What they did was cover their cans. They didn't want to be on the wrong side of a popular war. It was sheer political cowardice and they deserve to be flayed for it. IMO, it's a far more damning and accurate accusation than the insistence that no one had figured out the Iraqi invasion was more bogus than Bill and Ted's second trip through time. Hell, I did. A huge chunk of this country actively protested the invasion before it happened. Hans Blix kept pointing out that assuming Iraq had massive weapons stores because we can't find them was the screwiest misapplication of logic he'd ever encountered. It was wildly unpopular across the rest of the world.
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    Re: Dems Say Rove Should Apologize Or Resign

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    The real knock on the Dems should be that so many of them decided to support the war originally as part of a conniving political strategy. Some of them, Ted Kennedy for instance, called the invasion for the B.S. it was. The intelligence didn't add up, it didn't present Hussein as any sort of legitimate threat to the U.S. and the Bush administration didn't have an exit plan.

    What the rest of the party figured was that by voting to give Bush carte blance, they insulated themselves from wimp accusations and improved the party's chances of holding the Senate and re-taking the House in November 2002. Their hope was Hussein was such a non-entity that our military would roll over him (which it did) and that Bush was so gung-ho to make this a military world tour that we wouldn't get bogged down (which didn't pan out).

    What they did was cover their cans. They didn't want to be on the wrong side of a popular war. It was sheer political cowardice and they deserve to be flayed for it. IMO, it's a far more damning and accurate accusation than the insistence that no one had figured out the Iraqi invasion was more bogus than Bill and Ted's second trip through time. Hell, I did. A huge chunk of this country actively protested the invasion before it happened. Hans Blix kept pointing out that assuming Iraq had massive weapons stores because we can't find them was the screwiest misapplication of logic he'd ever encountered. It was wildly unpopular across the rest of the world.
    You can call it political expediency (or cowardice, as I think it was in the case of the hawkier Dems). And yes, Kennedy and Kerry both supported it only on the stipulation that the inspectors be given a chance to do their job. That's not flip-flopping. I don't care what anyone says. If the threat was real, it needed to be dealt with; if not, then it didn't.

    Yes, I knew it was hooey from minute one, but I also understand that a President should be given the authority to go to war IF a real danger exists. So I understand some of the Dems' votes. I'm cynical, but I'm not that cynical.


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