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[Betterread]

While your speculative situation would be bad, what would be worse is if the Reds hedged on nabbing Reyes for WMP because of WMP's tape-measure home run shots, ignoring all the other deficiencies in his game.

Your bias against WMP is ample and well-documented and makes me think of a poem by Philip Larkin:

"As bad as a mile"

Watching the shied core
Striking the basket, skidding across the floor,
Shows less and less of luck, and more and more
of failure spreading back up the arm
earlier and earlier, the unraised hand calm,
The apple unbitten in the palm.

Please give your unrelenting criticism of a hard-working young talent a rest, I really enjoy his game.

[Falls City Beer]

Your bias against WMP is ample and well-documented and makes me think of a poem by Philip Larkin:

"As bad as a mile"

Watching the shied core
Striking the basket, skidding across the floor,
Shows less and less of luck, and more and more
of failure spreading back up the arm
earlier and earlier, the unraised hand calm,
The apple unbitten in the palm.

Please give your unrelenting criticism of a hard-working young talent a rest, I really enjoy his game.

Larkin was a lout, a bad poet, and an anti-Semite.

He will drop out of anthologies altogether in 50 years. I say good.

[M2]

The best of the Cards young arms is now pitching in Oakland. But Reyes is a close second.

The Cards can keep Howingto--errr--Wainwright.

IIRC, you used to have a fairly dim view of Haren too. My apologies if I'm confused on that point. Most people on this board didn't think much of Haren. I remember a lot of yowling when I noted I vastly prefered him to Claussen.

Wainwright would be the best starting prospect arm the Reds have had since Mario Soto. He's not going to be major league ready until at least mid-2006. This year he's bouncing back from an injury-lost 2004, but the Reds will be doing well if four or five years from now they've got two starters better than Adam Wainwright.

[Betterread]

Larkin was a lout, a bad poet, and an anti-Semite.

He will drop out of anthologies altogether in 50 years. I say good.

A very spurious analysis. Yet, I offer you this by Seamus Heaney:

"The pitchfork"
Of all implements, the pitchfork was the one
That came near to an imagined perfection:
When he tightened his raised hand and aimed with it,
It felt like a javelin, accurate and light.

So whether he played the warrior or the athlete
Or worked in earnest in the chaff and sweat,
He loved its grain of tapering, dark-flecked ash
Grown satiny from its own natural polish.

Riveted steel, turned timber, burnish, grain,
Smoothness, straightness, roundness, length and sheen.
Sweat-cured, sharpened, balanced, tested, fitted.
The springness, the clip and dart of it.

And then when he thought of probes that reached the farthest,
He would see the shaft of a pitchfork sailing past
Evenly, imperturbably through space,
Its prongs starlit and absolutely soundless -

But has learned at last to follow that simple lead
Past its own aim, out to an other side
Where perfection- or nearness to it- is imagined
Not in the aiming but the opening hand.

[Patrick Bateman]

With all do respect FCB your bias against WMP is obvious. When you say things like Reggie Sanders is way better than WMP your bias really stands out. You seem to forget that Sanders is the same type of player as Pena yet you say one is a god and the other is a slouch.

[pedro]

With all do respect FCB your bias against WMP is obvious. When you say things like Reggie Sanders is way better than WMP your bias really stands out. You seem to forget that Sanders is the same type of player as Pena yet you say one is a god and the other is a slouch.

Frankly I'd be surprised if Pena has as good a career as Sanders.

Pena's only real tool that he utilizes is power. He's a lousy fielder with poor on base skills. Now he may improve enough to fullfill some of his promise but right now he is hardly a star.

[Falls City Beer]

IIRC, you used to have a fairly dim view of Haren too. My apologies if I'm confused on that point. Most people on this board didn't think much of Haren. I remember a lot of yowling when I noted I vastly prefered him to Claussen.

Wainwright would be the best starting prospect arm the Reds have had since Mario Soto. He's not going to be major league ready until at least mid-2006. This year he's bouncing back from an injury-lost 2004, but the Reds will be doing well if four or five years from now they've got two starters better than Adam Wainwright.

Last year I came around on my Haren prediction. He certainly showed himself as a keeper last season, IMO.

My point is less that Wainwright won't be serviceable--maybe as good as Claussen--but rather, that Reyes is far better, and every metric says so.

[paintmered]

Jocketty vs O'Brien is not exactly a matchup in our favor.

Rep points for the first person who can name 3 gm's out there that DanO matches well against.

[Falls City Beer]

A very spurious analysis. Yet, I offer you this by Seamus Heaney:

"The pitchfork"
Of all implements, the pitchfork was the one
That came near to an imagined perfection:
When he tightened his raised hand and aimed with it,
It felt like a javelin, accurate and light.

So whether he played the warrior or the athlete
Or worked in earnest in the chaff and sweat,
He loved its grain of tapering, dark-flecked ash
Grown satiny from its own natural polish.

Riveted steel, turned timber, burnish, grain,
Smoothness, straightness, roundness, length and sheen.
Sweat-cured, sharpened, balanced, tested, fitted.
The springness, the clip and dart of it.

And then when he thought of probes that reached the farthest,
He would see the shaft of a pitchfork sailing past
Evenly, imperturbably through space,
Its prongs starlit and absolutely soundless -

But has learned at last to follow that simple lead
Past its own aim, out to an other side
Where perfection- or nearness to it- is imagined
Not in the aiming but the opening hand.

What's your deal--are you thumbing your Anglo-Irish anthology for a reason?

Heaney wishes he were Robert Lowell--if only he were only as good as Bidart first.

Look--might I recommend starting a poetry thread on the non-BB side? This is hardly on topic.

Oh, and Pena's overrated--the sooner we get value for him the better.

[KronoRed]

Rep points for the first person who can name 3 gm's out there that DanO matches well against.

Ed Wade



That's all I got

[M2]

Last year I came around on my Haren prediction. He certainly showed himself as a keeper last season, IMO.

My point is less that Wainwright won't be serviceable--maybe as good as Claussen--but rather, that Reyes is far better, and every metric says so.

Had you listened to me, you'd have known Haren was keeper years before that.

And I'm telling you, you're likely headed down a similar path with Wainwright. He won't be making it obvious in the majors until 2007 or 2008, but I'm confident he's going to get there.

BTW, the main difference in rate stats between Wainwright and Reyes this season is that Wainwright has spent the past month pitching through a dead arm while Reyes has been on the shelf.

[M2]

Rep points for the first person who can name 3 gm's out there that DanO matches well against.

Bill Bavasi
Allard Baird
Dan O'Dowd

[Falls City Beer]

Had you listened to me, you'd have known Haren was keeper years before that.

And I'm telling you, you're likely headed down a similar path with Wainwright. He won't be making it obvious in the majors until 2007 or 2008, but I'm confident he's going to get there.

BTW, the main difference in rate stats between Wainwright and Reyes this season is that Wainwright has spent the past month pitching through a dead arm while Reyes has been on the shelf.

With each post, Wainwright's ETA gets pushed back.

I suspect if Wainwright weren't a lefty, no one would be pimping him all that hard. I'm sure the guy wil have a MLB career, I just don't think it's going to be a great one.

If it makes you feel any better, I'd trade Pena for Wainwright in a heartbeat.

[RedlegJake]

WMP. All that wasted speed. He has no instincts in the OF. None. I have to work to remember worse outfielders - okay, Deron Johnson....no...I think he was actually better. Uhh, Kingman? Nope, he had some instincts out there, not many but that's a few more than Wily Mo. Babe Herman...maybe we got a winner. Long time ago, though.

I think Wily Mo will be a tremendous hitter someday - er, tremendous home run hitter someday. I'm less inclined to think he'll ever become a good overall hitter, for one thing, no patience, no walks. All or nothing. Strikeouts and homers. Dunn without the eye.

I could be wrong though, because he has come a long way with his hitting over the last couple years. Do him a favor and trade him to an AL team with the DH. Then he can hit all the time and not play the field. Or, work him hard over the winter at first base. If he can get the footwork down maybe he can become serviceable there.

I hear cries about how fast he is and how that would be wasted at first - I tell you, the guy will never be a good outfielder - he hasn't got the first clue out there - and he isn't getting better. I'm with FCB. Trade him now while he's held in high regard.

And this is from a guy who actually enjoys watching Wily Mo and wishes the kid the best. I just don't think defensively he has it. I'm old school - no matter how important hitting is today, you still need to be able to catch the ball.

[M2]

With each post, Wainwright's ETA gets pushed back.

I suspect if Wainwright weren't a lefty, no one would be pimping him all that hard. I'm sure the guy wil have a MLB career, I just don't think it's going to be a great one.

If it makes you feel any better, I'd trade Pena for Wainwright in a heartbeat.

Wainwright's a righty.