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Thread: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn,...

  1. #31
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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Wainwright's a righty.
    D'oh! Tall kid, right? Lanky?

    Well, anyway, he's had one interesting season--at the age of 21. His K rates have weakened with each appreciable jump, and he got hurt last year. He looks a lot like...Harang in a lot of respects, except he keeps the ball in the park better and doesn't surrender as many doubles as Aaron.
    Last edited by Falls City Beer; 07-03-2005 at 11:43 PM.

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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    D'oh! Tall kid, right? Lanky?
    Yep, tall and lanky.
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  4. #33
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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn

    What, other than an underwhelming steadiness, can be said for the guy, and why is he any more a prospect than, say, Claussen, whose pedigree was every bit Wainwright's--but roundly impugned by this board?

    I mean, I'm not exactly sure what makes Wainwright "can't miss." His numbers aren't eye-popping in any respect. They're decent and he's remained relatively healthy up till last season, but really, what is the big deal? The guy looks like a 4 to me.

  5. #34
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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn,...

    All Wily Mo does is keep hitting and then all the people do here is bash him. You'd think the guy was opsing .600 right now, not .930. A lot of people on this board are obsessed with obp, failing to realize that certain players have enough power and plate coverage to make up for it with slugging. Personally give me a player with a slugging inflated ops over a bb inflated one. FCB- If Austin had half the work ethic of Wily Mo you might be right. Personally I think you can't handle that Wily Mo keeps proving you wrong time and time again. You ripped him this offseason and yet he keeps producing. Unless you think his .930 ops somehow isn't doing the job. Maybe you want Austin and his .750 something up here.
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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    All Wily Mo does is keep hitting and then all the people do here is bash him. You'd think the guy was opsing .600 right now, not .930. A lot of people on this board are obsessed with obp, failing to realize that certain players have enough power and plate coverage to make up for it with slugging. Personally give me a player with a slugging inflated ops over a bb inflated one. FCB- If Austin had half the work ethic of Wily Mo you might be right. Personally I think you can't handle that Wily Mo keeps proving you wrong time and time again. You ripped him this offseason and yet he keeps producing. Unless you think his .930 ops somehow isn't doing the job. Maybe you want Austin and his .750 something up here.
    Which would you rather have, a guy with a mid .800s OPS or a pitcher who throws 200 innings at a 3.75 clip?

    There's a place in baseball for a player like WMP; I just happen to think he's more useful in trade than in production for this team.

  7. #36
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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Bill Bavasi
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    You can throw Ed Wade and Ken Williams into that group. We're up to 5. I'm amazed that we could come up with 3.
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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    What, other than an underwhelming steadiness, can be said for the guy, and why is he any more a prospect than, say, Claussen, whose pedigree was every bit Wainwright's--but roundly impugned by this board?

    I mean, I'm not exactly sure what makes Wainwright "can't miss." His numbers aren't eye-popping in any respect. They're decent and he's remained relatively healthy up till last season, but really, what is the big deal? The guy looks like a 4 to me.
    Plus fastball, plus curve (needs to hone control), solid change. He's got the making's of a good #3, maybe better dependent on the heater. He was a baby for his level at both stops in A ball and in AA and he managed to put up power pitcher numbers.

    And I must have been on another board when Claussen was being roundly impugned. I remember after the Reds got him the few who dared to argue that he was a solid, but not great pitching prospect who'd need years to round into form got blasted for saying so. Wainwright's a better prospect because he's got a third pitch and, from what I understand, his injury didn't take away as much as Claussen's did (he's never recovered the A slider).
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  9. #38
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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by Falls City Beer
    Which would you rather have, a guy with a mid .800s OPS or a pitcher who throws 200 innings at a 3.75 clip?

    There's a place in baseball for a player like WMP; I just happen to think he's more useful in trade than in production for this team.
    I'd be perfectly willing to trade Pena for that, but I'd rather trade Kearns for it.
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  10. #39
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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    I'd be perfectly willing to trade Pena for that, but I'd rather trade Kearns for it.
    Whichever. But do what you got to do.

  11. #40
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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn

    How,and I repeat HOW can you trade with the Cards when they are the team to beat.That would be stupid imo!! Yes those pitchers look very good in a trade but that is to big of a chance to take if you ask me.

    The only player that I would even think about trading to the Cards is Kearns.He is having a tough time up here in the bigs and they thought that AAA would help him but I hear that he is starting to strugle again.So if somebody had to go JR 1st or Kearns.
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  12. #41
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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric
    All Wily Mo does is keep hitting and then all the people do here is bash him. You'd think the guy was opsing .600 right now, not .930. A lot of people on this board are obsessed with obp, failing to realize that certain players have enough power and plate coverage to make up for it with slugging. Personally give me a player with a slugging inflated ops over a bb inflated one. FCB- If Austin had half the work ethic of Wily Mo you might be right. Personally I think you can't handle that Wily Mo keeps proving you wrong time and time again. You ripped him this offseason and yet he keeps producing. Unless you think his .930 ops somehow isn't doing the job. Maybe you want Austin and his .750 something up here.
    Maybe he can keep it up, he does have incredible potential. The point you're missing is that the odds are against him continuing the way he is without improving his on base skills. Again, maybe he can but he'd be a historical abnormality if he does. Couple that with the fact that he is a truly horrible outfielder and I think you have to consider trading him if you can get a good return.

    I don't disagree that he is outperforming Kearns, and if Kearns doesn't get better he may not be a long term solution either.
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  13. #42
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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    Plus fastball, plus curve (needs to hone control), solid change. He's got the making's of a good #3, maybe better dependent on the heater. He was a baby for his level at both stops in A ball and in AA and he managed to put up power pitcher numbers.

    And I must have been on another board when Claussen was being roundly impugned. I remember after the Reds got him the few who dared to argue that he was a solid, but not great pitching prospect who'd need years to round into form got blasted for saying so. Wainwright's a better prospect because he's got a third pitch and, from what I understand, his injury didn't take away as much as Claussen's did (he's never recovered the A slider).
    One thing I noted when I was doing research on Wainwright is that he's got a partial ligament tear in his elbow that he didn't go under the knife to correct.

    That scares me enough to eliminate him as a target and I have little doubt that the injury is impacting his numbers this season. Eventually, I suggest that he'll need surgery to correct the ligament issue and it's very possible that scared the A's off of him this offseason because Wainwright- not Haren- put up the better minor league numbers to that point.

    Anthony Reyes is the only high-level SP prospect I want right now from the Cards in any deal involving Kearns or Pena. But I've also noted that Reyes was on the DL last year at Palm Beach and skipped a start mid-June because of a "tired arm".

    IMHO, Reyes is less "iffy" right now than Wainwright and, after what happened with Claussen, I wouldn't touch the guy. I would go after Reyes, but only if there was another high-level prospect involved.
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  14. #43
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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    One thing I noted when I was doing research on Wainwright is that he's got a partial ligament tear in his elbow that he didn't go under the knife to correct.

    That scares me enough to eliminate him as a target and I have little doubt that the injury is impacting his numbers this season. Eventually, I suggest that he'll need surgery to correct the ligament issue and it's very possible that scared the A's off of him this offseason because Wainwright- not Haren- put up the better minor league numbers to that point.

    Anthony Reyes is the only high-level SP prospect I want right now from the Cards in any deal involving Kearns or Pena. But I've also noted that Reyes was on the DL last year at Palm Beach and skipped a start mid-June because of a "tired arm".

    IMHO, Reyes is less "iffy" right now than Wainwright and, after what happened with Claussen, I wouldn't touch the guy. I would go after Reyes, but only if there was another high-level prospect involved.
    good post. i really would rather not trade for anyone with arm problems.
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  15. #44
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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelSD
    One thing I noted when I was doing research on Wainwright is that he's got a partial ligament tear in his elbow that he didn't go under the knife to correct.

    That scares me enough to eliminate him as a target and I have little doubt that the injury is impacting his numbers this season. Eventually, I suggest that he'll need surgery to correct the ligament issue and it's very possible that scared the A's off of him this offseason because Wainwright- not Haren- put up the better minor league numbers to that point.

    Anthony Reyes is the only high-level SP prospect I want right now from the Cards in any deal involving Kearns or Pena. But I've also noted that Reyes was on the DL last year at Palm Beach and skipped a start mid-June because of a "tired arm".

    IMHO, Reyes is less "iffy" right now than Wainwright and, after what happened with Claussen, I wouldn't touch the guy. I would go after Reyes, but only if there was another high-level prospect involved.
    The lig issue is something I'd certainly want a doctor to comment upon were I talking trade with the Birds. I thought it was odd he didn't get the TJ surgery last year. I figure the Cardinals made one of two choices - 1) Their interests in him are short-term and the ligament wouldn't affect that, 2) The ligament wasn't a big deal.

    Obviously St. Louis will insist it's the second one.
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  16. #45
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    Re: Prosportsdaily Reds Rumours! (Cards after Dunn.Kearns, Pena?), Indians after Dunn

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc D
    Oh I agree, I could easily see Dunn go for a prospect of lesser status than Reyes. Jocketty vs O'Brien is not exactly a matchup in our favor.
    Sadly I don't think DanO matches up well talentwise vs. any GM.

    We hear stuff like the "Reds are looking for 2 teir one prospects or 3 teir two prospects".. I predict Dunn will be shipped somewhere for three mediocre pitching prospects. DanO will feel great that he "got 3 potential starting pitchers" without even realizing he got ripped off.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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