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[traderumor]

You said that to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ was all you had to do but the demons do believe in Jesus.

The verse says that "you believe in one God, good, so do the demons and tremble." It doesn't mention Jesus.

[WVRed]

So, all Buddhists, all Hindus, all Catholics, all Protestants who don't share your very specific definition, all of the other religions and belief systems on earth, all of these are going to Hell and burning in a lake of fire and brimstone for all eternity.

Is that correct?

Matthew 7:22-23

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The Bible makes it very clear that God sent his only begotten son to die on the cross for our sins and that the only way to salvation is to accept his offer of salvation by believing on his son. And for those who do not believe, the above is what the Lord will say.

[KronoRed]

This is has been a rather interesting discussion, sad on some levels that believers throw some many stones at each other.

I felt the need to post a few things...

I've considered myself saved for 5 years, for most of that time I haven't had a church, why? things like this..the "scare em to save em" plan that I hated before I became a believer, the "live your life our way or die" crap that harms more then helps.

I don't know who gets to go where when they die, God does, I go by what WVRed posted, that Jesus is the way to heaven, he died for my sins and I'm free, but you know what? I could be wrong, I don't think I am but it's a chance, we'll find out at the end won't we?

I have tried to live my life one way, treat others as I would like to be treated, if someone is doing something you don't like, pray but it is NOT my job to condemn others, everyone is different, we aren't all the same, thankfully..life would be a boring wasteland if we were.

I expect to get some posts about this, mean ones too..for any Christians about to let loose a "YOU'RE WRONG! YOU'RE NOT SAVED" argument...keep it..I laugh at stuff like that, I know myself better then you and I know where I am with God, for non Christians, about to call me a close minded evil horrible person, you can keep it as well..you're wrong..not sure about this but I think the "treat others as you would like to be treated" works in any walk of life, you think my belief is crap, that's fine, I don't mind one bit.

Everyone to me is on their own road, you can't force someone to follow yours.

..and Good Luck again Rychian

[Puffy]

This is has been a rather interesting discussion, sad on some levels that believers throw some many stones at each other.

I felt the need to post a few things...

I've considered myself saved for 5 years, for most of that time I haven't had a church, why? things like this..the "scare em to save em" plan that I hated before I became a believer, the "live your life our way or die" crap that harms more then helps.

I don't know who gets to go where when they die, God does, I go by what WVRed posted, that Jesus is the way to heaven, he died for my sins and I'm free, but you know what? I could be wrong, I don't think I am but it's a chance, we'll find out at the end won't we?

I have tried to live my life one way, treat others as I would like to be treated, if someone is doing something you don't like, pray but it is NOT my job to condemn others, everyone is different, we aren't all the same, thankfully..life would be a boring wasteland if we were.

I expect to get some posts about this, mean ones too..for any Christians about to let loose a "YOU'RE WRONG! YOU'RE NOT SAVED" argument...keep it..I laugh at stuff like that, I know myself better then you and I know where I am with God, for non Christians, about to call me a close minded evil horrible person, you can keep it as well..you're wrong..not sure about this but I think the "treat others as you would like to be treated" works in any walk of life, you think my belief is crap, that's fine, I don't mind one bit.

Everyone to me is on their own road, you can't force someone to follow yours.

..and Good Luck again Rychian

I'm with Krono.

But what do I know - I'm catholic, believe in God, believe God sent his only son to Earth to die for our sins, believe that following the Commandments and living a good life and helping others is just as important as what or who you believe in. I'm catholic, and, apparently, am on my way to hell.

[traderumor]

I'm with Krono.

But what do I know - I'm catholic, believe in God, believe God sent his only son to Earth to die for our sins, believe that following the Commandments and living a good life and helping others is just as important as what or who you believe in. I'm catholic, and, apparently, am on my way to hell.

Luk 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, even God.
Luk 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and mother.
Luk 18:21 And he said, All these things have I observed from my youth up.
Luk 18:22 And when Jesus heard it, he said unto him, One thing thou lackest yet: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Luk 18:23 But when he heard these things, he became exceeding sorrowful; for he was very rich.
Luk 18:24 And Jesus seeing him said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
Luk 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to enter in through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Your statement made me think of this story Jesus told. Of course, one could get caught up in "Jesus is saying a rich man cannot get into heaven, so if I am doing pretty well I guess I'm damned to hell," but the greater point here is that when the man measured himself against keeping the commandments, he thought he was doing pretty good, and Jesus even gave him that much (even though it probably wasn't true).

However, "thou shalt not covet" was a stumbling block, so great that the ruler walked away, perhaps never inheriting the eternal life he claimed to be willing to do anything to obtain. Jesus said "Come follow me." Not go and learn how not to covet, but drop everything and come follow him. In the same way, it absolutely matters who or what you believe in, it matters more than anything else you mentioned. Those aren't my rules, again, its what the Bible teaches.

Do we have to be paupers? Again, that gets folks sidetracked. But Christ commands that he alone is Lord. So, while it sounds nice to follow your path, Puffy, you are saying little more than this ruler was, and he walked away without that which he sought. Why? Because he wouldn't follow Jesus unconditionally.

[WVRed]

I'm catholic, believe in God, believe God sent his only son to Earth to die for our sins

Puffy, I may not agree with Catholicism, but if you believe what you said, then the Bible clearly says you are going to heaven.

[letsgojunior]

Seems to me that Rychian's slogan accomplished exactly what he wanted it to - got people talking about Church again, in a positive way.

I'm 23 years old, am Catholic, and haven't been to church in approximately 8 years. I stopped going, because as Steel mentioned a few pages ago, I was bored, watching the minutes go by, and couldn't connect with anything that the priest was saying. Around the same time, I had several very difficult life experiences, and really lost faith in the entire order of things. My disillusionment was very disappointing for my family, as the vast majority of my extended family is extremely religious.

I went to a Catholic High School, and every Lent we went to confession at a local church. I remember one of the priests there was a really cool guy, someone we all sought out. I remember he told me that it was okay that I was bored and disillusioned - something I was pretty shocked to hear. And just to find something in mass to try to focus on, and to always have God in my heart.

I haven't been to church since, but I do always keep God in my heart. I don't think I'm going to hell because I haven't been to church in awhile, I don't think people are going to hell for having premarital sex, I don't think people are going to hell for doing drugs, and I don't think anyone who doesn't subscribe to my exact philosophy is going to hell either.

The one thing I remember about what that priest told me is to try to keep God in my heart. I try to treat others well, to respect opposing viewpoints, to help those less fortunate than myself, etc. I think that's what God wants from us. And I honestly believe he sets obstacles in our paths ultimately to help us along the way. There have been a number of times in my life when I was going through something that I thought was completely awful, and that I couldn't get through it. Later I realized that that event actually made me a better, stronger person, and usually led to something better along the way.

I'd be very intrigued and would consider joining a church like Rychian's. Kind of a community gathering in which I could learn more about the Bible and scripture in a non-intimidating environment. One in which people could kind of discuss their lives as well, and how their faith plays a role. I completely respect those who prefer a more dogmatic service. It's just not for me - but I feel certain that one thing God wants is for people to find their own path to Him.

[Puffy]

Do we have to be paupers? Again, that gets folks sidetracked. But Christ commands that he alone is Lord. So, while it sounds nice to follow your path, Puffy, you are saying little more than this ruler was, and he walked away without that which he sought. Why? Because he wouldn't follow Jesus unconditionally.

No, tr, I am not saying anything. I believe so much more than I said, but you wouldn't know that because you don't know me.

What I was doing was mocking that twice in this thread you have mocked my faith, once saying that it was once Christianity but no longer such, and another time earlier in the thread.

What I believe is what I believe, just as Krono said, and I have no desire to share that with you.

And WVRed - thanks for your faith! And you are lucky you decided against the Pensacola Christian school - they (we) look like we are gonna get pounded by Dennis on Sunday.

[traderumor]

No, tr, I am not saying anything. I believe so much more than I said, but you wouldn't know that because you don't know me.

What I was doing was mocking that twice in this thread you have mocked my faith, once saying that it was once Christianity but no longer such, and another time earlier in the thread.

What I believe is what I believe, just as Krono said, and I have no desire to share that with you.

And WVRed - thanks for your faith! And you are lucky you decided against the Pensacola Christian school - they (we) look like we are gonna get pounded by Dennis on Sunday.

I'm sure you do, but then you did provide some insight into what you believe and I commented on it. People are making a lot of conclusions about me because I don't shy away from being known as a Calvinist. Go ahead, challenge my beliefs if you like. I am confident that they will stand up to the scrutiny of Scripture. If they don't, I have something to consider.

Also, I did not comment on your standing before God, even though you are Catholic. But I doubt that WVRed knows you any better than I do, yet you appreciate his assessment of your standing before God based on one little snippet that you said. Neither he nor I have enough information about you to make a call either way, so why do you readily accept his opinion?

No, I do not think Roman Catholicism leads people to Christ, and I have many reasons for saying so, all of which can be supported by Scripture, but this is not the time or the place. But I have not told one person on here that they have to believe like I do, I am simply stating my case for why I believe what I do.

[rdiersin]

This is has been a rather interesting discussion, sad on some levels that believers throw some many stones at each other.

I felt the need to post a few things...

I've considered myself saved for 5 years, for most of that time I haven't had a church, why? things like this..the "scare em to save em" plan that I hated before I became a believer, the "live your life our way or die" crap that harms more then helps.

I don't know who gets to go where when they die, God does, I go by what WVRed posted, that Jesus is the way to heaven, he died for my sins and I'm free, but you know what? I could be wrong, I don't think I am but it's a chance, we'll find out at the end won't we?

I have tried to live my life one way, treat others as I would like to be treated, if someone is doing something you don't like, pray but it is NOT my job to condemn others, everyone is different, we aren't all the same, thankfully..life would be a boring wasteland if we were.

I expect to get some posts about this, mean ones too..for any Christians about to let loose a "YOU'RE WRONG! YOU'RE NOT SAVED" argument...keep it..I laugh at stuff like that, I know myself better then you and I know where I am with God, for non Christians, about to call me a close minded evil horrible person, you can keep it as well..you're wrong..not sure about this but I think the "treat others as you would like to be treated" works in any walk of life, you think my belief is crap, that's fine, I don't mind one bit.

Everyone to me is on their own road, you can't force someone to follow yours.

..and Good Luck again Rychian

Krono, that was very well said.

I don't think I could say it too much better than that.

[rdiersin]

I'm sure you do, but then you did provide some insight into what you believe and I commented on it. People are making a lot of conclusions about me because I don't shy away from being known as a Calvinist. Go ahead, challenge my beliefs if you like. I am confident that they will stand up to the scrutiny of Scripture. If they don't, I have something to consider.

Also, I did not comment on your standing before God, even though you are Catholic. But I doubt that WVRed knows you any better than I do, yet you appreciate his assessment of your standing before God based on one little snippet that you said. Neither he nor I have enough information about you to make a call either way, so why do you readily accept his opinion?

No, I do not think Roman Catholicism leads people to Christ, and I have many reasons for saying so, all of which can be supported by Scripture, but this is not the time or the place. But I have not told one person on here that they have to believe like I do, I am simply stating my case for why I believe what I do.

I'm Catholic and the church has led me to Christ. I don't see how you can make a statement like that. Maybe it hasn't been the way you want it to be, but the Catholic church leads many people to Christ.

[WVRed]

Traderumor,

Would you agree with me that if there has ever been a time that a person has bowed their knee to Christ and asked them to come into their heart and to cleanse them of their sin, that they would be saved?

That and that alone being the only key to salvation? Not by "putting a dollar in the box" or anything else? "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." "Not of works, lest any man should boast."

[paintmered]

I'm Catholic and the church has led me to Christ. I don't see how you can make a statement like that. Maybe it hasn't been the way you want it to be, but the Catholic church leads many people to Christ.

Same here.

[Puffy]

I'm sure you do, but then you did provide some insight into what you believe and I commented on it. People are making a lot of conclusions about me because I don't shy away from being known as a Calvinist. Go ahead, challenge my beliefs if you like. I am confident that they will stand up to the scrutiny of Scripture. If they don't, I have something to consider.

Also, I did not comment on your standing before God, even though you are Catholic. But I doubt that WVRed knows you any better than I do, yet you appreciate his assessment of your standing before God based on one little snippet that you said. Neither he nor I have enough information about you to make a call either way, so why do you readily accept his opinion?

No, I do not think Roman Catholicism leads people to Christ, and I have many reasons for saying so, all of which can be supported by Scripture, but this is not the time or the place. But I have not told one person on here that they have to believe like I do, I am simply stating my case for why I believe what I do.

Oh please - I said, and I quote, "thanks for the faith" - It was a simple thank you for him saying what he said, and nothing more. He expressed no opinion, and if you ask him he will say the same.

As for the rest, well, whatever.

[traderumor]

Traderumor,

Would you agree with me that if there has ever been a time that a person has bowed their knee to Christ and asked them to come into their heart and to cleanse them of their sin, that they would be saved?

That and that alone being the only key to salvation? Not by "putting a dollar in the box" or anything else? "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God." "Not of works, lest any man should boast."

If one has accepted Christ as Savior AND Lord, they indeed are saved.