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Thread: Marty: Forget the walks

  1. #151
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    Re: Marty: Forget the walks

    I think its funny that when a pitcher for the Reds gives up a walk that turns into a run, Marty gives the ol' "Walks will kill you" speech. Yet, Dunn walks too much.

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  3. #152
    Member NJReds's Avatar
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    Re: Marty: Forget the walks

    Last night I was listening to the Mets game on my way home.

    They were talking about the Mets poor OBA as a team and gave this stat:
    Over the last 36 games (didn't hear why they picked this stretch of games) when the Mets drew 3 or more walks they were 11-0. When they drew 2 or fewer walks, they were 4-11.

    The announcers went on to discuss the importance of being patient on the plate, making the pitcher work the count and getting on base, noting that the Mets were one of the worst teams in the league in OBA.

    Funny, but the whole discussion made a lot of sense...

  4. #153
    Sheltonmassacre
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    Re: Marty: Forget the walks

    His walks wouldnt be such a big deal if the people behind him would drive him in.

  5. #154
    Resident optimist OldRightHander's Avatar
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    Re: Marty: Forget the walks

    I've stayed pretty quiet through this thread, but I have a couple thoughts. I have listened to the last two games on the mlb audio archive the next day and Scully has really said some good things about some of the Reds hitters. In the first inning the other night he was flat out praising Lopez for his OBP and the homers he has hit. He said the same thing about Dunn. I don't remember him mentioning either player's BA. Also, I saw part of Monday night's game on tv before I went to bed, and Welsh and whoever was filling in for Grande had some positive things to say about Dunn drawing that walk in the first inning. Welsh mentioned Dunn getting on base a lot. I think Chris gets it more than some other announcers, and Scully seems to get it, really destroying the image I had of all old baseball people being old school in their thinking.

    I have another thought regarding walks and I have a very imperfect analogy to illustrate it. I play softball and I'll be the first to admit that I'm not a very good hitter. I'm good for a hit a game at the most, mostly singles, and on rare occasions I'll have a multiple hit game or an extra base hit. Because I am not a good hitter, I know which pitches I am most likely to hit well and which ones I won't hit well. My approach is to look for the first thing that is where I want it and when I see it I'm swinging. If I don't see what I want, I'm not swinging, even if it's a strike. Now when I'm at two strikes, I'm going after anything that could be a strike. Because of my approach, I have been walked a few times this year. The other night I had an AB with a runner at third. I really wanted to drive that runner in. I had every intention of getting the rbi, but the pitcher was struggling with his control and he couldn't manage to throw me a strike. Knowing my limitations as a hitter, I didn't go after those pitches because I just would have gotten out anyway. I ended up being walked and the next guy up, who can hit anything for a line drive, hit one of those bad pitches up the gap for a double that scored the guy on third and sent me over to third. I managed to score on a sac fly by the next guy. Did I want to walk? No, but I didn't have much choice with what the pitcher was throwing. Now I know that there is a big difference between my softball league and MLB, but about the only difference I see between Dunn's approach and mine is the amount of damage he does when he does hit the ball. Sometimes I will get my pitch and still ground out, but when he gets one where he wants it, any runner is in scoring position. Also, if I walk, it's just because the pitcher is struggling, not that I'm actually putting any fear into the pitcher, but Dunn does put that fear into pitchers in MLB. He makes pitchers change their approach when he is up there to the extent that they are hesitant to throw anything over the middle of the plate. They nibble at the corners, up and in and down and away, and try to get him chasing something just off the zone. He knows his limitations on those bad pitches and he is laying off them more. Remember that bad funk he was in back in 2003 when he would strike out on those bad balls away? Now that he is letting them go and drawing walks, he's now being criticized for walking too much. You can't have it both ways folks. How often a player walks is so dependent on how he is pitched to, but there are a few people on here who seem to think that the hitter can somehow control how often the opposing pitcher is going to throw strikes. That's preposterous.

  6. #155
    smells of rich mahogany deltachi8's Avatar
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    Re: Marty: Forget the walks

    Well said ORH...
    Nothing to see here. Please disperse.

  7. #156
    Score Early, Score Often gonelong's Avatar
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    Re: Marty: Forget the walks

    Quote Originally Posted by OldRightHander
    ...there are a few people on here who seem to think that the hitter can somehow control how often the opposing pitcher is going to throw strikes. That's preposterous.
    Not to mention its generally the same group that wants a guy to "expand his zone" to drive a runner in that wail and gnash teeth if a guy makes and out chasing that pitch. All of the sudden that pitch was "at his eyes" or a "foot outside".

    GL

  8. #157
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    Re: Marty: Forget the walks

    Quote Originally Posted by deltachi8
    Well said ORH...
    I'll second that.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  9. #158
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Marty: Forget the walks

    So, open question...

    If DUnn were to cut, I dunno...50 K's a year off of his total, how many do you think:

    -Would be hits
    -Would be outs
    -Would be walks

    Just curious what numbers people might assign to this.

  10. #159
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Marty: Forget the walks

    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong
    Not to mention its generally the same group that wants a guy to "expand his zone" to drive a runner in that wail and gnash teeth if a guy makes and out chasing that pitch. All of the sudden that pitch was "at his eyes" or a "foot outside".

    GL
    Exactly.
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  11. #160
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    Re: Marty: Forget the walks

    If DUnn were to cut, I dunno...50 K's a year off of his total, how many do you think:
    -Would be hits: 8 (mostly singles)
    -Would be outs: 40
    -Would be walks: 2
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  12. #161
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Marty: Forget the walks

    Quote Originally Posted by gonelong
    Not to mention its generally the same group that wants a guy to "expand his zone" to drive a runner in that wail and gnash teeth if a guy makes and out chasing that pitch. All of the sudden that pitch was "at his eyes" or a "foot outside".

    GL
    Ted Williams wrote about that very thing. Once pitchers realize you will chase a pitch two inches outside the strikezone, they start throwing you pitches four inches outside the strikezone. Exnd your strikezone some more, and pitchers will further adjust. The batter winds up chasing pitches he cannot do anything with.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  13. #162
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    Re: Marty: Forget the walks

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron
    Ted Williams wrote about that very thing. Once pitchers realize you will chase a pitch two inches outside the strikezone, they start throwing you pitches four inches outside the strikezone. Exnd your strikezone some more, and pitchers will further adjust. The batter winds up chasing pitches he cannot do anything with.
    Yeah... but he was one of the Redszone 10 and never sat in a plane next to Pete and Johnny.

  14. #163
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    Re: Marty: Forget the walks

    Quote Originally Posted by OldRightHander
    Welsh mentioned Dunn getting on base a lot. I think Chris gets it more than some other announcers, and Scully seems to get it, really destroying the image I had of all old baseball people being old school in their thinking.
    I am not so sure that Welch gets it. I think he is trying to, but he reverts to what he 'knows' in moments of stress (when he hasn't had time to prepare his 'view' beforehand). It seems his head is telling him one thing, while his heart is holding on to all that he has held dear for all these years.
    4009



  15. #164
    Resident optimist OldRightHander's Avatar
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    Re: Marty: Forget the walks

    Quote Originally Posted by ochre
    I am not so sure that Welch gets it. I think he is trying to, but he reverts to what he 'knows' in moments of stress (when he hasn't had time to prepare his 'view' beforehand). It seems his head is telling him one thing, while his heart is holding on to all that he has held dear for all these years.
    I see what you mean. That's why I said that he gets it more than other announcers, which maybe isn't saying much for the other announcers. I have heard him say some pretty sensible things lately, and it take that as evidence that maybe he's either shifting his opinions or he's at least willing to take a look at some differing points of view. He's not there yet, but perhaps he's heading in the right direction.


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