Marty: Forget the walks

[Sham]

Lately I've been digging the hard white cheeses myself, good cheese is good ya know?

Absolutely, get a nice piece of Swiss on a grilled chichen sandwich, and BAM!

[registerthis]

I like pie.

[OnBaseMachine]

I like pie.

Me too. Especially with some Shannon Elizabeth in it.

[BoydsOfSummer]

Pie-Oh-My R.I.P

[KronoRed]

I like pie.

Pie is the best.

[BadFundamentals]

When Dunn is locked in - getting his HRs or when not hitting ball out of park ripping it for a double or when not getting pitched to taking his walk then yes he can definitely be a force in lineup.

The difference between most of your opinions of him and the minority (and much less vocal) on this board including me is that it seems you all believe Dunn locked in is Dunn night in night out. That I just don't see. I see the locked in Dunn as the exception. The exception that typically lasts either a few games or a week or two only to be replaced by the much less productive Dunn.

The other point is the big picture. You all seem to see him as the type of guy to "build around". That again, I just don't see. I see him as a complementary type player. I see him as a luxury player type that only the larger budget teams will be able to afford to carry.

[KittyDuran]

The Parable of the Three
Reds Fans and Adam Dunn
[with sincere apologies to the famed parable “The Blind Men and the Elephant”]

It was three fans of the Reds
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see Adam Dunn
Though all of them thru love were truly blind,
That each by observation
Might satisfy the mind.

The First Fan approached Adam Dunn
And, happening to touch so brave
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to rave:
"God bless me, but Adam Dunn
Is very like the Babe!"

The Second, feeling the wooden bat,
Cried, "Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and large?
To me 'tis very clear
This wonder of Adam Dunn
Is very like Rob Deer!"

Finally the Third approached Dunn
And, happening to take
The large outfielder’s face within his hands,
Thus boldly up he spake:
"I see," said he, "Adam Dunn’s
OPS must really rake!"

And so these Fans of the Reds
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong.
Though each was partly in the right,
They all were in the wrong!

[NJReds]

they weren't having it last night.

That's because most of them disappear after Dunn's good games.

[Raisor]

When Dunn is locked in - getting his HRs or when not hitting ball out of park ripping it for a double or when not getting pitched to taking his walk then yes he can definitely be a force in lineup.

The difference between most of your opinions of him and the minority (and much less vocal) on this board including me is that it seems you all believe Dunn locked in is Dunn night in night out. That I just don't see. I see the locked in Dunn as the exception. The exception that typically lasts either a few games or a week or two only to be replaced by the much less productive Dunn.

Well, we can actually test this theory of your's, by looking at his monthly totals since the beginning of last year.

The positional average OPS for LF is currently .797. By the end of the season, it should be around .815 or so (right about where it has been the last few years).

In the ten full months (he got 1 PA in Oct last year that I'm not including, for obvious reasons), he has been below average for a LF in exactly two months: May 04:.717 and Sept 04: .783

In that time, he has OPSed +/= 1.000 5 times (including the current month), +.900 one more time, and +.850 and additional two more times.

That's being "locked in" by nearly any definition that really matters.

[BadFundamentals]

I don't agree with score methodology on that one inventor of the drinking bird. Dunn gets so many walks his OPS tends to always stay relatively high. To measure his "locked inness" I would contend it would have to be either just SLG or a combo of B.A. and SLG.

[Raisor]

I don't agree with score methodology on that one inventor of the drinking bird. Dunn gets so many walks his OPS tends to always stay relatively high. To measure his "locked inness" I would contend it would have to be either just SLG or a combo of B.A. and SLG.

SLG%,

In that time, his SLG has been below positional average twice, those same two months listed above. May 04: .372, Sept 04: .444 (-6 points below current positional average).

He's been over 700 once, +600 4 times, +500 twice, +450 once.

I'm not going down the BA road. You've admitted time after time that you know that OBP and SLG correlate much higher to runs scored then BA, yet you continue to try to go back to that well.

[BadFundamentals]

Additionally, unless you were going to just compare him to the left fielders who make 8-10 million+/year I wouldn't say your comparison addresses the question of how productive he is night in night out or his productivity relative to other high paid outfielders.

[deltachi8]

I too was once a slave to the batting average argument, the strike out argument, the walks to much argument. Then I opened my mind and read, and thought and read some more and discovered it was time to realize I was wrong.

I made the ROb Deer argument right here on Redszone. I was wrong.

Adam Dunn is plain and simple one of the top 5 (or 3) young hitters in the game. Arguing that a 25 year old "walks too much" is just plain foolish. As he matures, his batting average may improve, and thats fine as long as it does not mean the prodcution of more outs.

There is value to the reds however with the batting average obsession by so many. Because Dunn will most likely have a relatively lower batting average, and bating average is "valued" in arbitration, contract discussion, etc, Dunn's pay will most likely be kept below his actual value.

[Ravenlord]

why the hell did i open this thread?

[KronoRed]

why the hell did i open this thread?

Like frustration?