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Thread: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public office"

  1. #1
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public office"

    Charlie Winburn is running for Mayor here in Cincinnati, and the Enquirer today republished portions of a religious tract he authored back in the 90s.

    In the story today, he states that "I concede that someone could see that and say I'm not tolerant of anyone" but stops short of recanting the entire statement. Elsewhere in the larger tract, he also comments negatively on the rights and roles of women in society.

    I make no comment one way or the other but, rather, express a continuing sense of unease that there is a gigantic and ever-growing segment of the American population that leads a lifestyle and employs of a mode of thinking that I simultaneously cannot comprehend and will never be able to embrace.

    Religion Embroils Mayoral Race
    Don't be deceived by this issue of "separation of church and state." Why do you think Satan wants to keep Christians out of the media, education, politics, government and economics? So he can control their destiny. He doesn't want them to take any part in decision-making in any of these crucial areas. ... Satan wants power and control over the people of God. (Ephesians 6:12.)

    It is God's will for the Church, through the Kingdom, to influence the political system by first teaching those in the system to obey and respect the laws of God.

    Politics is dirty because the true believers are not really involved in it. We Christians must clean up politics. It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public office. If officeholders are not Christian and refuse to obey the laws of God, we must work hard, under the law, to unseat them. ... Jesus came as King to establish His Kingdom, not a political Kingdom. We must get into control of politics by subduing this kingdom so God's Kingdom can rule in the earth. (Revelations 11:15, 16.)

    The pastor and his congregation are under commandment to begin to teach more than their church members. If the president, Congress, governors and mayors are not Christians, we must teach them the ways and acts of God. We must go to them aggressively, but tempered with love
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    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public office"

    Does this guy have any chance of winning?
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    http://dalmady.blogspot.com

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    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public office"

    Well, he's the Republican nominee, has the backing of teh Fraternal order of Police, and is a former city councilman. I'd say he has a chance.

    <shudder>
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public office"

    Why do you think Satan wants to keep Christians out of the media, education, politics, government and economics?
    Because of the casseroles?

  6. #5
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public office"

    I can't tolerate intolerance!
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    http://dalmady.blogspot.com

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public office"

    Sounds like someone who bought into the Moral Majority concept way back when. At least he didn't say "Here I stand" when they asked him to recant Then one might think he's delusional or something like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor
    I make no comment one way or the other but, rather, express a continuing sense of unease that there is a gigantic and ever-growing segment of the American population that leads a lifestyle and employs of a mode of thinking that I simultaneously cannot comprehend and will never be able to embrace.
    "Those Christians, they're going to take over the world, the world I tell ya. It's all their fault. Let's make them into human torches and line the palace walkways with them." Likewise, the paranoia that occurs when Christians are either not minding their own business or minding their own business, whichever the case may be, is "a mode of thinking that I simultaneously cannot comprehend and will never be able to embrace." Historically, if we hole ourselves up in safe houses out of fear, the populace gets nervous wondering what they could possibly be doing in secret. "I know, they're cannibals because Jesus told them to eat his body and drink his blood, and they do it, all the time. That's what they're doing in those secret meetings." If we enter the public square, then we're going to suck all the fun out of living by trying to force our morality onto people who do not share our moral convictions. Yea, we wouldn't want laws to be moral or anything.

    Oh well, the earth continues to spin on its axis.
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  8. #7
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public offi

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper
    I can't tolerate intolerance!
    The first amendment says what you consider intolerant is another man's right to believe and speak, within limits.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  9. #8
    Just The Big Picture macro's Avatar
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    Re: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public office"

    ...and in this corner (spoken in my best boxing announcer's voice), we have this point of view...

    "I pray for this country, and I pray that all Americans become Muslim only. That's just my prayer message to all Americans."
    I happened to stumble across this as I was searching google for something completely unrelated...

    Political Powder Keg: Has Religious Tolerance Gone Too Far?
    By Melissa Charbonneau
    White House Correspondent

    The Islamic call to prayer is a 1,400-year-old tradition, sung in most U.S. mosques within the walls.



    CBN.com – (CBN News) - HAMTRAMCK, Michigan -- Hamtramck, Michigan is a blue-collar town surrounded by the city of Detroit. Its downtown storefronts reflect the diversity of immigrants who settled here. But an influx of immigrants from the Middle East has transformed Hamtramck from a melting pot into a political powder keg.
    New Muslim residents are adopting American habits, driving SUVs and talking on cell phones. But many still cling to old customs, wearing traditional dress, and shopping at markets that sell "halal," or meat slaughtered according to Islamic law. Now one Bangladeshi mosque wants to revive a controversial ritual.

    The Islamic call to prayer is a 1,400-year-old tradition, sung in most U.S. mosques within the walls. But the Al Islah Islamic Center says they should be able to broadcast over public loudspeakers in Arabic, five times a day, from 6am to 10pm.

    The call to prayer states, "Allah is great…Mohammed is Allah's prophet…come to prayer. There is no god but Allah."

    Mosque president Ahmed Motlib asked the city's permission to broadcast from rooftop loudspeakers. Motlib says, "Some people, they don't know what time is our congregation, only for congregation coming and participating. That's why we want to call prayer outside."

    But the request has split the community. Hundreds signed a petition to block the broadcasts as a public annoyance.

    Hamtramck resident Jerry Radziszewski says, "To me, this is disturbing the peace. They understand what it is. We don't. To us it's just a bunch of noise."

    Mosque supporters say the Azan can already be heard from mosques in nearby Detroit No different, they say, from Christian church bells.

    Motlib comments, "Azan is only two minutes, less than two minutes is noise. Every hour church bell, more than five minutes their bell make belling. So we don't feel anything bad."

    Bob Zwollack is a former city clerk who led the petition drive. He says it is an issue of noise.


    "Even if they got up on their towers and did it like they did 1,400 years ago," says Zwollack, "where you just had a call to prayer like before, there's not a problem. Who's going to object to that? Yes, they have a right to free speech, but the overall objection was an amplified sound, amplified religious statement."

    But the dispute has escalated into a national controversy over religious freedom. The press converged on heated city council meetings, which exploded with calls for tolerance and charges of discrimination.

    Hafiz Mohammed of the Islamic Association of Michigan, says, "Those people who are opposing Azan, our position is not a new phenomenon. They are racist! "

    Council member Scott Klein says, "The folks I've seen leading this have nothing on the boys from Montgomery, the boys from Birmingham, the boys from Mississippi."

    Hamtramck resident Bob Golen protests, "I am not a racist! My wife is not a racist."

    Joanna and Bob Golen are life-long residents of this neighborhood, now largely owned by Bangladeshi newcomers. The Golens say they have been demonized for signing the petition.

    Bob Golen says, "I don't tell them to believe in Jesus, I don't want them to tell me to believe in Mohommed. The call to prayer is fine, but don't evangelize me where I can't turn you off five times a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. They're going to tell me their god is the only true god? I don't have to listen to that."

    The Golens say the mosque is forcing a foreign religion right onto their front porch, proselytizing on public airwaves.

    Joanne Golen says, "Why is it wrong for them to practice their religion the way they want to? They can do it any way they want in their mosque, like we do in our churches, in their homes, like we do. I can even sit on my porch and pray silently. I'm all for them practicing their religion, but I do not want to hear over loudspeakers their god being praised in my ears five times a day."

    Monther Alkisswanii says, "I think it's racial discrimination against someone's culture or beliefs."

    For years a mosque in Dearborn has announced the call on loudspeakers. Mosque-goers say neighbors are not complaining.

    Alkisswanii says, "It doesn't bother them because it's not, the call is not so loud. People play music more loud that this."

    Others living near the mosque say the daily declarations are hard to ignore.

    Dearborn resident Felicia Moser says, "Especially around Ramadan time, they keep to themselves. You hear the speakers every day, every day, for hours. It's just when it gets to the point when it's really, really loud, if you're trying to sleep at night. We've tried to express our feelings about it and it doesn't get you anywhere."

    Dearborn is home to the nation's largest concentration of Muslims outside the Middle East. One McDonald's caters to Muslim customers offering halal meals. Shops advertise in Arabic. Mosques line the streets, with more under construction.

    Nasser Beydoun, head of Dearborn's Arab-American Chamber of Commerce, says that the sizable Muslim population has earned the community's recognition, including support for a new proposal to declare two Muslim holy days official, paid city holidays.

    Beydoun says, "Islam is one of the second largest religions after Christianity, and one of the three monothestic religions, so celebrating Islam like you do Christianity and Judaism. We see nothing wrong with it."

    Beydoun expects no resistance. Dearborn schools already grant Muslim holidays to students. One district banned pork and changed lunch menus to meet Muslim requirements. Old-world ways are gaining acceptance, but some see the beginnings of a culture clash.

    Michigan columnist Barrett Kalellis says America's lax immigration policy is shifting immigrant attitudes from assimilation to accommodation.

    "Great waves of foreign cultures have come over here," Kalellis says, "and they have no real interest in becoming Americans. They want to maintain and set up satrapees or fiefdoms of their original cultures from the old country."

    He continues, "They don't want to change. They want the system to change to accommodate their beliefs and customs, as opposed to their trying to change."

    American Muslims are gaining political clout on local school boards, city councils, and in Congress. They have support from the Bush administration The Justice Department recently defended the constitutional right of a Muslim sixth-grader in Oklahoma to wear a headscarf in class. And states across the nation are conceding to Muslim demands to wear headscarves in drivers license photos.

    The push for concessions and tolerance of Islamic traditions has some in the Detroit area and elsewhere asking, "How far could it go?" Across the U.S. bordering Canada, some Muslim leaders have already established judicial tribunals to enforce Sharia, or Islamic law, to handle family and civil disputes."

    What is happening in Hamtramck could be a beginning. A precedent some see as cause for concern.

    Bob Golen says, "If it were allowed to snowball. If it were allowed to take root, we would become an Islam nation, and no longer would there be a separation of church and state because an Islam nation is governed by Islam, and not by a republic or democracy."

    Others say there's nothing to fear. Tolerance and respect for other cultures is the source of America's strength.

    Yet Alkisswanii says, "I pray for this country, and I pray that all Americans become Muslim only. That's just my prayer message to all Americans."

    Help stamp out, eliminate, and do away with redundancy.

  10. #9
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public office"

    "I know, they're cannibals because Jesus told them to eat his body and drink his blood, and they do it, all the time. That's what they're doing in those secret meetings."
    Yeah, not a day goes by that I don't hear three or four people muttering that.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public office"

    Islam is one of the second largest religions after Christianity
    What exactly does THIS mean? Conceivably, they could be the 13th or 14th largest religion and consider themselves "one of the second largest religions."
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  12. #11
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public office"

    "They're going to tell me their god is the only true god? I don't have to listen to that."
    How very interesting to see the tables turn in this argument. Looks like when the God is Allah rather than the Christian God, people aren't so thrilled to see His name bandied about in public.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  13. #12
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public office"

    How very interesting to see the tables turn in this argument. Looks like when the God is Allah rather than the Christian God, people aren't so thrilled to see His name bandied about in public.


    Give that man a cigar!

    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public offi

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    How very interesting to see the tables turn in this argument. Looks like when the God is Allah rather than the Christian God, people aren't so thrilled to see His name bandied about in public.
    And that is one thing I will never deny, either. I am not a person that believes that the US is the kingdom I am most concerned about. What I think is reasonable for our nation, as a republic, is to not exclude any person from public office because of their religious beliefs. However, politics is a secular vocation, and Christian is not a prerequisite anymore than it is for doctor, dentist, hair stylist, or any other professional we might need.

    Johnny, funny reply to my faux dialogue. But, man, CE's statement is not atypical and is the same mindset that has been around throughout the history of the church, and it has always puzzled me. But then, statements like Winburn made once upon a time do nothing but add fuel to the fire.
    Can't win with 'em

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    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public office"

    I understand where you're coming from, tr, but it's been a long time since we've seen widescale persecution of Christians by non-Christians in this country.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Charlie Winburn: "It is our job to elect only born-again believers to public offi

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    I understand where you're coming from, tr, but it's been a long time since we've seen widescale persecution of Christians by non-Christians in this country.
    At least in the form of violence. I know some consider Christians to have a martyr complex, and oral and verbal persecution are nothing compared to what Far Eastern (e.g. Pakistani, Indonesian, Loatian, and other countries with high Muslim concentrations) Christians go through in physical torture. But oral and verbal persecution are legitimate and is increasing in frequency in the short time (about 13 years) that I've been a Christian. For example, my son and I are reading Pilgrim's Progress together, which was written by Bunyan from prison, whereby he was there for preaching the gospel, so I understand fully the difference. Still, both cause pain, but endurable pain because one knows it is ultimately for the glory of God.
    Can't win with 'em

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