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Thread: Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb

  1. #31
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb

    We could be like the Israelis and put armed troops with Ouzis and live ammo on all public transporation. The Israelis don't screw around.
    I doubt we'll ever get there, and I'm glad.

    Plus, those armed troops don't really deter suicide bombers. They can hit the bomb switch before the troops even know what's going on.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

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  3. #32
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    I doubt we'll ever get there, and I'm glad.

    Plus, those armed troops don't really deter suicide bombers. They can hit the bomb switch before the troops even know what's going on.
    I honestly don't know where we might "get to" if terror attacks on our soil become bad enough and frequent enough. I can recall reading an interview with General Tommy Franks a year or two ago where he expressed concerns regarding what the reaction of the American public would be if a terror group ever denotated a nuclear device on American soil or otherwise succeeded in a WMD attack here.
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  4. #33
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    I don't live in a mass-transit town, so I have no idea about the volume of people using it. Would it really grind things to a halt, or would it just force people to get up 30-45 minutes earlier every morning?
    In Boston, local subway/trolley/commuter rail lines carry more than 750,000 riders a day. New York, Philadelphia and Chicago are orders of magnitude greater than that.

    You'd have to get up before the crack of dawn every day to wait in crazy long lines to take a mass transit that now costs you an arm and a leg to pay for the salaries of all the new security personnel.

    BTW, I don't know anyone who'd wait in a 30-minute line to ride a subway. You'd have an angry mob on your hands if you made it a five-minute line.
    Last edited by M2; 08-12-2005 at 02:46 PM.
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  5. #34
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    Re: Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by M2
    In Boston, local subway/trolley/commuter rail lines carry more than 750,000 riders a day. New York, Philadelphia and Chicago are orders of magnitude greater than that.

    You'd have to get up before the crack of dawn every day to wait in crazy long lines to take a mass transit that now costs you an arm and a leg to pay for the salaries of all the new security personnel.

    BTW, I don't know anyone who'd wait in a 30-minute to ride a subway. You'd have an angry mob on your hands if you made it a five-minute line.
    I'll second what M2 said...

    The D.C. Metro averages about 600,000 riders per day--significantly more during tourist season. People tend to get annoyed when lines back up at the farecard machines...and that is generally for just a couple of minutes at the most. If you add a security lin on top of that with 5, 10 or 20 minute back-ups, people would riot. And the system would fall into disarray.

    As I've said, we'll protect public transportation to a degree, but we've made the determination that they are an acceptable risk. And coming as someone who rides arguably one of the most targeted lines in the nation - the red line - into D.C. every day, I feel rather qualified to make that assessment.
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  6. #35
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb

    They said the same things about security checkpoints at the airport. But I guess air travel isn't the same daily excursion as mass transit.

    If the last attack had been in Chicago instead of London, no one would complain about waiting in a security line.

    But that's just the way it is, I guess.
    Last edited by Johnny Footstool; 08-12-2005 at 03:09 PM.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  7. #36
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron
    I honestly don't know where we might "get to" if terror attacks on our soil become bad enough and frequent enough.
    Good point. And I think that is the reason why we haven't or aren't taking the measures to really tighten things up like we should. The lack of consistency/frequency in attacks on our soil. We've done some things, due to 9-11, which in alot of ways are superficial and want to give the appearance to the public that we are trying, and to give them some sense of security.

    But if the attacks were to gain in frequency and momentum at some point in the future, then you'll see more drastic measures taken. Right now, due to that infrequency, maybe it is not necessary. Similar to what the Israelis do? (and I'm not referring to having Uzzis on planes). Maybe. You have to do what you can to provide your citizens with safety and security. Even if it does prove an inconvenience. That "inconvenience", even though you don't like it, is something you have to learn to live with, or endure, for the sake of saving lives.
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  8. #37
    SERP Emeritus paintmered's Avatar
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    Re: Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by creek14
    I read a lot of *stuff* at work. To the point where I am almost immune to it all.

    I read some stuff yesterday that made my palms sweat.

    Just sayin.

    I take the "how are we all going to die today" approach. Because that's pretty much what the terrorism briefing is.

    Like creek said, you get immune to it. Most of it is stuff that hollywood wishes they could think up.
    What if this wasn't a rhetorical question?

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  9. #38
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Man says he forgot pipe bomb was in luggage

    Charged with trying to take device on plane, he says it was meant for fun

    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8918879/

    OKLAHOMA CITY - An Oklahoma man told federal investigators he forgot a pipe bomb he built for fun was in his luggage when tried to board an airplane, according to court documents released Thursday.

    Charles Alfred Dreyling Jr., 24, was charged Thursday with trying to carry the bomb aboard a Delta Airlines flight from Oklahoma City to Atlanta on Wednesday, according to the documents.

    Dreyling was released Thursday on $10,000 bail. If convicted, he faces up to 10 years in prison and a $250,000 fine.

    FBI agents and Oklahoma City police officers said the pipe bomb contained a metal cartridge filled with gunpowder attached to a detonator made from model rocket parts, according to an affidavit filed by the FBI.

    Dreyling, a student at the University of Oklahoma, could have detonated the bomb using his cell phone battery, according to the affidavit.

    Dreyling told investigators he made bombs for recreation and had recently set off several devices with friends in rural Oklahoma, according to the affidavit.
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  10. #39
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: Man says he forgot pipe bomb was in luggage

    Quote Originally Posted by savafan
    Charged with trying to take device on plane, he says it was meant for fun

    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8918879/

    OKLAHOMA CITY - An Oklahoma man told federal investigators he forgot a pipe bomb he built for fun was in his luggage when tried to board an airplane, according to court documents released Thursday.

    Dreyling told investigators he made bombs for recreation and had recently set off several devices with friends in rural Oklahoma, according to the affidavit.
    I hope no one is gullible enough to believe that.

    He makes bombs for recreational purposes? Man I miss the days of Tinker Toys and Erector Sets.
    "panic" only comes from having real expectations

  11. #40
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    Re: Man says he forgot pipe bomb was in luggage

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC
    I hope no one is gullible enough to believe that.

    He makes bombs for recreational purposes? Man I miss the days of Tinker Toys and Erector Sets.
    When he's REALLY bored maybe he messes around with some anthrax or bubonic plague to pass the time.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  12. #41
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    Re: Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool
    They said the same things about security checkpoints at the airport. But I guess air travel isn't the same daily excursion as mass transit.
    Well that's exactly right. Lengthy security lines are something people are willing to tolerate at airports because they can plan accordingly--they know that in order to make an 8:00 flight from Dulles to Chicago, they need to be in the airport at 6:00. but the very idea behind mass transit is to get you where you need to go quickly and efficiently, with as minimal interruption as possible. If people who rode the subway to work had to tack on an additional 20-30 minutes to pass through a security screening, they would simply quit using it.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  13. #42
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    Re: Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb

    JohnnyFootstool,

    Go ask any police officer if profiling works. My Dad was a policeman and he always said that profiling was an integral part of his job. Now I'm not talking about the profiling of just detaining someone because of their ethnicity, but if you are looking for a suspect and they are described as a: White male, 30 - 40 years old, 6'2", 225lbs, with black hair. Every guy who fit that description would be looked at twice and may have even been detained for questioning.

    Airport security has been put on alert to look for an individual who fits a specific profile. Is it fair? Probably not, but profiling is one of the tools available to airport security to help them keep passengers safe, along with baggage screening (which is what stopped this guy), random checks, and others. It is not and should not be the main tool used, but it is a big one.

  14. #43
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb

    but if you are looking for a suspect and they are described as a: White male, 30 - 40 years old, 6'2", 225lbs, with black hair. Every guy who fit that description would be looked at twice and may have even been detained for questioning.
    I agree with you, redlegz. I don't have any problem with that kind of profiling, because in those cases the police are looking for suspects who have already committed a crime. That's perfectly legal and constitutional.

    The problem arises when you start detaining people but no crime has been committed. You can't perform random searches because you think someone is likely to commit a crime in the future. The 4th Amendment prohibits that.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  15. #44
    You know his story Redsland's Avatar
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    Re: Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb

    Speaking of random checks, I got the ol' TSA pat-down in Philly on Friday. I haven't had one of those in about two years. My all-day meeting broke early, and I was able to get on a earlier flight home. Since my colleague also got the personal touch, I figure we got flagged for the ticketing change.

    BTW, now, in additional to practically stripping you and wanding you, they also physically touch you. As far as I'm concerned, that's a new reason not to become a TSA screener.

    As for commuter security, I just saw a demonstration of a booth, essentially, made by GE and others. You step in , it closes and puffs some air on you. Then it samples the air to see if you're packing anything you shouldn't be. If so, you're locked down. If not, you go on your merry way. Looks like it takes about 5-10 seconds per person. Look for them everywhere, once costs come under control.
    Makes all the routine posts.

  16. #45
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    Re: Oklahoma man held before boarding plane with bomb

    I guess you and I just disagree on what an "unreasonable search" is. The IV Amendment gives us protection against unreasonable search's. In my opinon if your getting on to a plane that has up to a couple of hundred people on it, and also has the capablity to destroy a skyscraper, that it's not unreasonable to search people for things that could help them destroy or take over the plane.

    Again I guess we just have a difference of opinion, no law against that


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