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Thread: Its still the Economy

  1. #31
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo
    To clarify, I don't think we need knee-jerk protectionism. What your talking about, making free-trade contingent on labor and environmental standards, is perfectly reasonable. It will take international standards and monitoring that we alone are not up to however. .
    That's a good point. My solution to this company would be that you have the companies producing the foreign goods pay a certification fee to have their plant reviewed and certified. Sure, that will add cost to that microwave oven made in China or Korea, but I'm not concerned about that. Companies that manufacture in America spend a considerable amount of money to meet environmental standards (that's one reason the jobs are moving overseas).

    I see no reason why it's not fair to make the Chineese or Mexican manufacturers do the same paperwork if they want to sell in the US. Of course, they'd probably have to pay more, because I'd want periodic, surprise audits to make sure they were legitimately conforming.

    This certification would be entirely paid for by fees from the companies. It wouldn't cost the taxpayers a dime.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  3. #32
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy
    Well, there's no doubt there are too many lawyers out there, and that was before the economy took this bad turn (in my opinion). The problem I see is the ecomony is forcing even more people into law school, which is just going to further the problem.
    .
    Yes, that's true in a lot of professions that require higher education. My first kid is about 9 years from college. Unless things change, I'm going to push him to get an Associates Degree first in something marketable (if that's still an option by then), and then get his 4 year degree. It's getting to the point where a 4 year degree is worth less and less.

    My friend had a son who just graduated as a Mechanical Engineer from a good school. Had a great GPA, etc. If he had graduated in the 80's, he could've probably worked for any company in America. But today, it's different. He looked for a long time, and finally had to settle for a 25k job.
    IMO, that's not worth going to college for, unless you really have a passion for that career.

    And the marketing/sales jobs will take a hit when the economy slows as well. Can't market stuff when consumers have no money to buy. We had the dot.com illusion, now we have the no interest mortgage/negative equity loan illusion driving the economy (which will crash eventually as well). At some point, driving the economy with deficit spending is no longer going to be a viable option.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  4. #33
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    Thanks for the post. I respect Roberts.
    What I wish is that someone had a solution for the problems Roberts discussed. I know that many here were praising Obama's recent speech-my reaction was that the speech had nice wording and was surely delivered well, but where were the solutions to the problems Obama mentioned?
    I'm not being critical of either Roberts or Obama. These are tough issues, and I sure don't have the solution either.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  5. #34
    Member dman's Avatar
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor
    I can attest (anecodtally, of course) that the market for professionals is almost bone dry.

    The summer legal market (where a good number of law students build job contacts in the 2nd year summer) is almost completely dry, and the law market in general is extremely slow. I've heard about a lot of recent graduates that are having an incredibly difficult time finding any kind of employment -- one kid I know has just been waiting tables for over a year, already having passed the bar and just looking for somewhere to work.
    Boy aren't you right about the professionals!!!!! Imagine how low the market is for pilots, given the shambles that the airline industry is in.

  6. #35
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD
    Yes, that's true in a lot of professions that require higher education. My first kid is about 9 years from college. Unless things change, I'm going to push him to get an Associates Degree first in something marketable (if that's still an option by then), and then get his 4 year degree. It's getting to the point where a 4 year degree is worth less and less.
    I know what you mean. My son's 15 and I'm still trying to get him to go for the 4-year, but I think its me that needs convincing.

    We're kinda caught in the middle here in the good ol' USA. On the one hand you have emerging economies like China and India where you can rapidly increase your lot in life through education. On the other, you have Europe, where this isn't is much opportunity but they have all kinds of insulating social programs that allow people to work 25 hours a week and time to pursue an actual life. But like a 50-year old in hot pants we can't come to grips with our middle age.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  7. #36
    Member Deepred05's Avatar
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    Perhaps some of you younger folk should consider a move out west. The economy is booming out here. I have lived in Vegas, Phoenix, Seattle, and now California, in the last seven years. These years have been the most profitable of my life. Also, being in the casino industry, I have been astonished at the amount of "disposable" income people seem to have these days. Blows me away. Definitely a dramatic increase in the amount of money people are wagering these days, compared to when I started in the business 20 years ago.

  8. #37
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    I live in San Francisco and the economy here is better than it was a couple of years ago, but it ain't great. Home construction and housing-equity fueled consumption is driving the economy in the west, more than anywhere else. And when that shoe falls.......

    Anyhow, after the dot.com bubble burst we kept pumping out dollars to keep the economy afloat leading to the current housing bubble. When it bursts, I fear we'll be tempted to lower interest rates again and more speculation. But I'm guessing there will be no third light on this match. The public, having witnessed two successive bubbles, will not look for the "next big thing".

    PS: Look for the bubble to burst in October when the new Bankruptcy law goes into affect and the credit card companies double their minimum payments.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  9. #38
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepred05
    Perhaps some of you younger folk should consider a move out west. The economy is booming out here. I have lived in Vegas, Phoenix, Seattle, and now California, in the last seven years. These years have been the most profitable of my life.
    I've actually investigated trying to move out west, because I know there is a burgeoning legal market in areas like Arizona and Texas. However, I've found that it's really hard to get a foot in the door somewhere that you've never lived or have no other contacts or ties to. Heck, it's been hard enough looking for work in places I have lived (Washington DC, New Orleans, and Cincinnati)!

    My mistake was going to Toledo for law school...I came for the full tuition scholarship and I'm getting exactly what I paid for.
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  10. #39
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    CE, my brother graduated from Toledo's law school and is doing really well. There's hope.

    Anyhow, I've long been extremely concerned over the reckless levels of debt the current administration is allowing to accumulate. IMO, the deficit is the most significant threat to the economy.

    Here's a decent read on Greenspan's view of the current economy.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/26/bu...26cnd-fed.html
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  11. #40
    1st pick 2022 B.B. draft George Foster's Avatar
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor
    I can attest (anecodtally, of course) that the market for professionals is almost bone dry.

    The summer legal market (where a good number of law students build job contacts in the 2nd year summer) is almost completely dry, and the law market in general is extremely slow. I've heard about a lot of recent graduates that are having an incredibly difficult time finding any kind of employment -- one kid I know has just been waiting tables for over a year, already having passed the bar and just looking for somewhere to work.
    This is because there are to many law schools! In My little state of KY there are 3 law schools pumping out aprox 230 lawyers a year. That's why law suits are increasing. Suits that would not be filed 10-15 years ago, are being filed because the lawyers need to make a living. they will take a chance. It's sad.
    I don't know what it is like in your state, but we are over-run with lawyers in KY. My dad is a retired Judge and is practicing again, he says the same thing. Most lawyers don't retire at 55 or 60 because they love what they do, and they have an established practice that is making good money. There are only 120 counties in KY and every three years there are about 700 new lawyers...thats nuts.
    It has nothing to do with the economy, in fact my father said he makes more money in a bad economy due to bankrupties, divorces, etc.
    Not this year...maybe a Wild Card

  12. #41
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by George Foster
    This is because there are to many law schools! In My little state of KY there are 3 law schools pumping out aprox 230 lawyers a year. That's why law suits are increasing. Suits that would not be filed 10-15 years ago, are being filed because the lawyers need to make a living. they will take a chance. It's sad.
    George, do you know anything about the practice of law? Do you understand that trial/litigation attorneys constitute only a small portion of all attorneys nationwide? Do you understand that every real estate deal, every estate plan, every sizeable loan transaction, every community association bylaw, every business acquisition, every stock sale, every HR department, every health care office--plus many many more areas of society--require the work and advice of attorneys?

    There aren't more lawyers today because more people are suing. There are more lawyers because the world's largest economy requires them in order to properly function.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  13. #42
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    .

    Anyhow, I've long been extremely concerned over the reckless levels of debt the current administration is allowing to accumulate. IMO, the deficit is the most significant threat to the economy.
    I agree with you on that. In 20-30 years when Japan gets in a pinch and has to fund a lot of social programs due to its aging population and can't lend the US any more money, we're going to be in big trouble.

    By then, probably 40-45% of tax revenue will be used to pay interest on the debt (maybe not that much, but a significant amount). We'll also have an older population to take care of, etc. It's going to be a mess.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #43
    1st pick 2022 B.B. draft George Foster's Avatar
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    George, do you know anything about the practice of law? Do you understand that trial/litigation attorneys constitute only a small portion of all attorneys nationwide? Do you understand that every real estate deal, every estate plan, every sizeable loan transaction, every community association bylaw, every business acquisition, every stock sale, every HR department, every health care office--plus many many more areas of society--require the work and advice of attorneys?

    There aren't more lawyers today because more people are suing. There are more lawyers because the world's largest economy requires them in order to properly function.
    Read my post again, I never said that "there aren't more lawyers today because more people are suing." I said that do to the over production of lawyers by law schools, they are taking cases that they would not have taken 10-15 years ago because they need the business.

    If the worlds largest economy requires more lawyers to properly function, why are recent graduates from law waiting tables like was mentioned in the above posts?
    Not this year...maybe a Wild Card

  15. #44
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by George Foster
    Read my post again, I never said that "there aren't more lawyers today because more people are suing." I said that do to the over production of lawyers by law schools, they are taking cases that they would not have taken 10-15 years ago because they need the business.
    No, you didn't say "cases". You said that more suits are being filed--specifically, you said this:
    Quote Originally Posted by George Foster
    That's why law suits are increasing. Suits that would not be filed 10-15 years ago, are being filed because the lawyers need to make a living
    A majority of lawyers in practice never file a lawsuit, George. Taking on a case and filing a lawsuit are two completely separate things. That's why I say you show very little understanding of the practice of law.

    If the worlds largest economy requires more lawyers to properly function, why are recent graduates from law waiting tables like was mentioned in the above posts?
    The same reason people with business degrees are working retail, people with CIS degrees are working in coffee shops, and people with economics degrees are working in book stores. Not everyone finds a job immediately out of school, and the market for individuals in the professional services sector has declined as the economy has declined during the past 5 years. That's attributable to a host of factors. But to say that more lawyers coming out of law school means more lawsuits is simply asinine.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  16. #45
    Member Deepred05's Avatar
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    Re: Its still the Economy

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor
    I've actually investigated trying to move out west, because I know there is a burgeoning legal market in areas like Arizona and Texas. However, I've found that it's really hard to get a foot in the door somewhere that you've never lived or have no other contacts or ties to. Heck, it's been hard enough looking for work in places I have lived (Washington DC, New Orleans, and Cincinnati)!

    My mistake was going to Toledo for law school...I came for the full tuition scholarship and I'm getting exactly what I paid for.
    Tons of Ohio folk in Arizona. A sports bar in Glendale must set aside a whole room every Sunday to accomodate all the Browns fans. When the Reds are in town, they even serve Skyline Chili at the stadium. A real treat for those of us who moved away long ago.

    I can personally attest to Phoenix booming right now. I have "flipped" two homes in the past year, and made twice my yearly salary. A lot of money from California is flowing into the state, these people are actually paying cash for multiple homes!

    Going to school is never a mistake my friend. You may be behind your friends who didn't go at this point, but trust me that gap will close soon.


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