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Thread: I have issues

  1. #31
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    Re: I have issues

    Quote Originally Posted by George Foster

    That is why over 80% of the active military voted for Bush.
    I have been trying to find the military vote in the 2004 election for a long time and have been unable to locate it. Where did you find this figure?

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  3. #32
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: I have issues

    Quote Originally Posted by George Foster

    We are more safe with this war in Iraq. terrorist are going to Iraq to fight us rather than fighting us at the Mall of America or Disneyworld. .....
    and we are creating the largest terrorist training ground in history.


    Quote Originally Posted by George Foster
    What people need to realize is that people are going to die to terrorism until we defeat it. The decision that the President had to make is do we fight them on the streets of middle America, or do we take the fight to them in the Middle East..either way people are going to die...I think he has made the right decision. Over 2/3's of the people killed in Iraq by our soldiers are not Iraq's but punks from Iran, and Saudi Arabia.
    As Caveat said, this war is causing more terrorists to join the cause every day.

    The idea that we are safer because of this war is absolutely ridiculous. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Trying to tie the war in Iraq to the fight against terrorism is ludicrous.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  4. #33
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: I have issues

    BTW GF, I haven't read anywhere in this thread where anyone has claimed that we are in Iraq because of oil. Maybe your talking about some other hacks?
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  5. #34
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: I have issues

    Quote Originally Posted by RedBloodedAmerican

    Yes, we defeated Germany because Germany and Japan posed a threat to the "free world" at the time. What threat did Iraq pose to the US and it's allies?



    One man couldn't remove Saddam Hussein from power. His son set out to prove that he could. I've always felt that's what this was about, and knew it would happen when we elected him to his first term.
    My dad got to enjoy 3 Reds World Championships by the time he was my age. So far, I've only gotten to enjoy one. Step it up Redlegs!

  6. #35
    Joe Oliver love-child Blimpie's Avatar
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    Re: I have issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor
    We don't have an oil shortage or a refinery shortage; we have expensive oil due to high worldwide demand from not only the United States, but the developing nations like China and India, which are starting to become largescale consumers of oil as their economies move towards the first world.
    Bingo. Caveat, you beat me to it. These two countries are just now expanding their infrastructures equal to levels that we have been enjoying in this country since the 1950's. Bridges, highways, buildings--things that we take for granted--were never there in those countries either because they had no resources or because their governments failed to make them priorities.

    I work in an industry that is greatly influenced by the recent fluctuation in steel prices. The last 2-3 years have been brutal for us because of the demand that is originating from China, and to a lesser extent, India. "Buy American" clauses in my company's contracts force me to buy domestic steel exclusively; however, these same steel companies are free to sell to the highest bidder regardless of their country of origin. Right now, these developing countries are not only over-paying for steel, but for all commodities including crude oil. In China, transportation conditions have improved almost overnight. Thus, people have been purchasing automobiles at staggering levels in countries that, historically, have been very dependent on other modes of transportation (bicycles, scooters, trains, etc...)

    Really it just boils down to supply and demand. Strictly a numbers thing. China and India make up approximately 40% of the world population. When that amount of dollars begin to flow, some companies just can't keep their greed in check. As always, markets will adjust back to normal given the proper amount of time. We are simply an impatient society that consists of people who lack a greater understanding of world--not national--economics. I just get tired of hearing that the global price of crude oil will go down as soon as Americans get rid of one of our SUV's. Hogwash.
    Last edited by Blimpie; 08-19-2005 at 09:53 AM.
    "Booing on opening day is like telling grandma her house smells like old lady."--WOY

  7. #36
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: I have issues

    We are more safe with this war in Iraq. terrorist are going to Iraq to fight us rather than fighting us at the Mall of America or Disneyworld.
    This is a fallacious argument that has been used by conservatives since the war began.

    "Terrorists" aren't going to go toe-to-toe with the world's most powerful military force. Terrorists attack civilians and try to generate fear.

    The war in Iraq is being fought by warlords, thugs, and "freedom fighters," not terrorists. If they ever figure out how futile it is to fight against an organized, well-equipped, well-trained army, they will probably decide to *become* terrorists.
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  8. #37
    Harry Chiti Fan registerthis's Avatar
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    Re: I have issues

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro
    BTW GF, I haven't read anywhere in this thread where anyone has claimed that we are in Iraq because of oil. Maybe your talking about some other hacks?
    I'll step forward and make that assumption. After all, we already went to war with Iraq once over the stuff.

    Oil may not have been the sole determining factor, but I think it's foolish to think Bush thought of Iraq's oilk as a nice bonus after we invaded and controlled the country.
    We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

  9. #38
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: I have issues

    The term whackos has been used on this site to describe just about every political ideology there is.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  10. #39
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: I have issues

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    The term whackos has been used on this site to describe just about every political ideology there is.
    Baseball too, you crackpot.

  11. #40
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: I have issues

    Quote Originally Posted by registerthis
    I'll step forward and make that assumption. After all, we already went to war with Iraq once over the stuff.

    Oil may not have been the sole determining factor, but I think it's foolish to think Bush thought of Iraq's oilk as a nice bonus after we invaded and controlled the country.
    I don't think it had anything to do with oil. I think it was all about ego and legacy. Unfortunately I don't think it's creating the type of legacy Bush wanted.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  12. #41
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: I have issues

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro
    I don't think it had anything to do with oil. I think it was all about ego and legacy. Unfortunately I don't think it's creating the type of legacy Bush wanted.
    I agree completely. It took me a while to get to that belief, but that's the conclusion I've come to.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  13. #42
    Member ochre's Avatar
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    Re: I have issues

    It was because Hussein tried to muder/assassinate H.W.
    4009



  14. #43
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: I have issues

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM
    I agree completely. It took me a while to get to that belief, but that's the conclusion I've come to.
    It's not like they did this because they're evil either. I believe they honestly thought they could remake the middle east in their image and make the world a better place for it. I just happen to think that it was an incredibly misguided and dangerous thing to do and I don't see anything happening in Iraq to make me change my mind. I wish I was wrong.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

  15. #44
    Member ochre's Avatar
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    Re: I have issues

    Quote Originally Posted by pedro
    It's not like they did this because they're evil either. I believe they honestly thought they could remake the middle east in their image and make the world a better place for it. I just happen to think that it was an incredibly misguided and dangerous thing to do and I don't see anything happening in Iraq to make me change my mind. I wish I was wrong.
    From what I have seen and read, that's exactly how the Wolfowitz' of the world see their role(s) in modern society.
    4009



  16. #45
    Please come again pedro's Avatar
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    Re: I have issues

    Quote Originally Posted by ochre
    It was because Hussein tried to muder/assassinate H.W.
    Well, I do believe that's part of W's motivation but it'd be hard to get everyone else to go along for the ride soley based on that.
    Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun


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